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I think you've made some incorrect assumptions about who I am and what I think about these issues. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll leave a few points so we're on the s

I think you've made some incorrect assumptions about who I am and what I think about these issues. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll leave a few points so we're on the same page: I have been involved in the hiring process at more than one tech company and it was apparent that there were far, far fewer women in the pipeline than men. Even if we hired every single person who applied the balance would still lean very heavily toward men. Again, this is just in my personal experience. I don't believe it is the job tech companies to do extra work to hire more of any underrepresented group in the industry until the problem in the pipeline is addressed. I think the argument that there is something biological about women that makes them less interested in tech comes from what amounts to pseudoscience at best and that argument shouldn't be validated because it gets in the way of solving the problem with the pipeline. I have never (and would never) advocated for any group of people to be given "extra marks to pass" in a situation where their ability to do a job is important. I don't think the author of that memo at Google should have been fired. Though I do understand how from a corporate standpoint they felt that they had to. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the "person interested in equal opportunity would not do..." I didn't do those things. I'm not blind to anything and I think all I did in my comment was ask a pretty simple question that you didn't even attempt to answer.

doubleshame 9y ago
You are a man of far more experience than I am. Thank you for sharing. I believe I included a lot of the general discussion we've seen in my response. To answer your question as I gleaned it from children of sibling posts: how to foster inclusion of foreign looking ideas: - always assume good faith (this really covers it all actually) - listen carefully and understand what was meant - always speak to the point that was being made instead of to the person, or worse to the words themselves - allow both yourself and the other people to change their opinions Ideas are just memes. We need to have the humility to see that and not associate people / ego / self with them.
bostonvaulter2 9y ago
You've said many things about what you don't believe and what you don't agree with. What of the memo (if any) do you agree with and what do you actually believe about how companies should approach diversity?
- dopamean 9y ago
  I don't think what I believe about the memo matters. I just wanted to hear what people had to say with regards to being inclusive of people with ideas they don't agree with. Judging by how few responses I got that even attempted to answer that question I'm going to guess that many people aren't interested in being inclusive of people with dissenting opinions that they find offensive. In the interest of answering part of your question (since I just complained about how few answered mine) I'll say that I do think there is a role for companies to play when it comes to diversity. I'd love to see companies get involved much earlier than when it comes time to hire. Because I believe the problem is with the pipeline I think that if companies want to address the problem then they should start where the pipeline starts: early education. If Google is more interested in getting more women involved in tech I would support the idea of Google hosting a summer camp for girls at their HQ. Or funding programs to do those kinds of things in other places in the country. Of course I have no idea if this kind of thing would work and it would require patience (years) to see if it would pay off. But it seems like a good place to start. I haven't really thought a ton about how to solve the pipeline problem but it seems obvious that you'd start at the beginning rather than the end. Perhaps I'm wrong. What do you think?
muninn_ 9y ago
One thing i have been curious about is why women don't find jobs like construction, or plumbing or electrical work appearing. Any thoughts?
- dopamean 9y ago
  My thoughts wouldn't amount to anything more than a layman's understanding of pop psychology which I don't think adds anything useful to the conversation.

doubleshame 9y ago

You are a man of far more experience than I am. Thank you for sharing. I believe I included a lot of the general discussion we've seen in my response. To answer your question as I gleaned it from children of sibling posts: how to foster inclusion of foreign looking ideas: - always assume good faith (this really covers it all actually) - listen carefully and understand what was meant - always speak to the point that was being made instead of to the person, or worse to the words themselves - allow both yourself and the other people to change their opinions Ideas are just memes. We need to have the humility to see that and not associate people / ego / self with them.

bostonvaulter2 9y ago

You've said many things about what you don't believe and what you don't agree with. What of the memo (if any) do you agree with and what do you actually believe about how companies should approach diversity?

dopamean 9y ago
I don't think what I believe about the memo matters. I just wanted to hear what people had to say with regards to being inclusive of people with ideas they don't agree with. Judging by how few responses I got that even attempted to answer that question I'm going to guess that many people aren't interested in being inclusive of people with dissenting opinions that they find offensive. In the interest of answering part of your question (since I just complained about how few answered mine) I'll say that I do think there is a role for companies to play when it comes to diversity. I'd love to see companies get involved much earlier than when it comes time to hire. Because I believe the problem is with the pipeline I think that if companies want to address the problem then they should start where the pipeline starts: early education. If Google is more interested in getting more women involved in tech I would support the idea of Google hosting a summer camp for girls at their HQ. Or funding programs to do those kinds of things in other places in the country. Of course I have no idea if this kind of thing would work and it would require patience (years) to see if it would pay off. But it seems like a good place to start. I haven't really thought a ton about how to solve the pipeline problem but it seems obvious that you'd start at the beginning rather than the end. Perhaps I'm wrong. What do you think?

muninn_ 9y ago

One thing i have been curious about is why women don't find jobs like construction, or plumbing or electrical work appearing. Any thoughts?

dopamean 9y ago
My thoughts wouldn't amount to anything more than a layman's understanding of pop psychology which I don't think adds anything useful to the conversation.