4 ms·

Someone clueless speaking confidently is always a joy to read.

elorant 9y ago
Well I happen to live in Greece so I witnessed first hand the results of his reign. You probably have no idea how it is to live in a country that has capital controls so let me enlighten you. The first months, until the system was somewhat stabilized, in order to pay for servers and such we had to ask for favors from Greeks who lived abroad. Imagine having half a dozen servers to pay and not knowing if you will manage to find someone/someway to send money abroad. So yes, the guy was a fucking disaster. But you have the luxury to judge him without living the consequences of his actions and for that I can't blame you.
- RodericDay 9y ago
  I grew up in Peru and knew lots of kids who didn't know anything about their own country outside of their little get-rich-quick schemes, and hated anyone who rocked the boat, even as fierce critics sounded warning bells of challenges ahead. The fact that some aspiring-rich techpreneur reduces his complex gambit like you do here is not at all surprising to me. ___ hn is stopping me from replying downstream so: And yet you use ad hominem to advance your own perpective, weird! "I'm greek don't question me on this!" "How dare you bring up my background?"
  - elorant 9y ago
    Ad hominem attacks don't work in here dude. This is HN. We either speak with arguments or not at all. Update: I never forbid you for questioning me because I'm Greek. All I said was that as a Greek I know first hand the results of his actions. If you want to argue on that, feel free to do so. As for my background, you don't know it and that's the thing. You're assuming that I'm rich(-ish) and thus drawing a conclusion as to where my interests stand. That's irrelevant though, and highly inappropriate. Don't judge me for what (you think) I am, but for what I say.
    - savvidis 9y ago
      Hey man, "chapeau" for trying to explain how many of us feel. It is interesting to see that many people think they know more than you about greek crisis just because they have read some articles on the news. Also impressed that Gianis' PR worked so well outside Greece. He proved a clever dude for his own sake
- RobertoG 9y ago
  Are you blaming Varoufakis for the capital controls? "Capital controls were introduced in Greece in June 2015, when Greece's government came to the end of its bailout extension period without having come to an agreement on a further extension with its creditors and the European Central Bank decided not to further increase the level of its Emergency Liquidity Assistance for Greek banks." ( From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_controls_in_Greece https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_controls_in_Greece ) The FED is the lender of last resort in the USA bank system (if I don't remember wrong that was the main reason of its creation). The Bank of Greece was the lender of last resort in the Greece bank system. The ECB should be the lender of last resort for the europeans in the Euroarea. Last time I checked Greeks were european. It's not its job to be an enforcer for foreign interests. Why we allow the ECB to be used as a political weapon or how that is legal is beyond me. That means that we have given all that power to people who don't care about, for now, the Greeks. In fact, Varoufakis is disputing the legality of that movement: https://diem25.org/thegreekfiles/ https://diem25.org/thegreekfiles/
- Alupis 9y ago
  Yanis Varoufakis became involved in the Greek Government in 2015... well after Greece's financial problems had set in.
- jjoonathan 9y ago
  I thought he advised the opposite approach to the one the Greek government wound up choosing? In any case, there is no free lunch, and the lunch had already been eaten when he was brought on board. In the absence of a miracle I would expect every alternative to be painful. From your experience we can conclude that he did not work a miracle. That's hardly an indictment.
- Tyrek 9y ago
  anecdata != data. You haven't presented any alternative views on what a presumably more competent economist could have executed on. Just because life was bad doesn't mean that it could have been better.
  - elorant 9y ago
    What his predecessor tried to do. Fix the economy. Greece's problem isn't the debt per se, it's the fact that our economy isn't competitive. There's a lot of red tape, many professions are regulated (pharmacies are a prime example), we import way more things than we export, entrepreneurism is very low, public sector is corrupted, the insurance system is bankrupt, and a lot of things don't work as they should in a modern western country. Even if we defaulted in all our debt, which is highly unlikely even if we exit the Eurozone, we'd be in the same position give it a few decades. There are a lot of structural problems in the economy and Varoufakis did nothing to address any of these. All he did was acting like a rock star who is clueless of how things work in the upper levels of EU policy making. In the six or so months of his reign he didn't introduced a single policy to fix structural problems. Not one, nothing, zero, ziltch. He was so fixated in the debt issue and acting like a fucking primadona that he forgot there were other equally pressing matters to attend to. Like running the damn country for one.
    - Apocryphon 9y ago
      So you're advocating for your country to undergo the same sort of economic shock therapy that other states before have undergone?
      - elorant 9y ago
        Why, do you think that if we exit the EU things will become instantly better? It will be much, much worse for the foreseeable future. Greece isn't self-sustained. We import pretty much everything, from oil to fertilizers.
        Apocryphon 9y ago
- guelo 9y ago
  Yea but now you're stuck with a lost generation of no growth for the next 20-30 years, and no national pride. Seems like it was worth fighting to avoid having your kids and your kids' kids groveling the Germans forever. The Brits are leaving voluntarily because they have some fucking pride.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    Greece didn't have great options at that point. If they had left EU, they could have unilaterally restructured the German loans, but they would have been hung out to dry with respect to the refugees. They don't have an easily closed border. Suddenly the ridiculous Western decision to destabilize Libya and Syria makes a kind of hideous sense...
- wott 9y ago
  > You probably have no idea how it is to live in a country that has capital controls Give me a break, young man, it was a common thing in many places until the 80's.
- Trundle 9y ago
  Being directly affected by a situation should absolutely not be a point for being more knowledgeable on it. Emotional appeal is the refuge of the ignorant.
  - elorant 9y ago
    Capital controls are real dude, they're not a figment of my imagination. Try operating an online business while you can't transfer funds abroad and then we can talk about sentimentalism.
dang 9y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines despite many requests to stop.

Well I happen to live in Greece so I witnessed first hand the results of his reign. You probably have no idea how it is to live in a country that has capital controls so let me enlighten you. The first months, until the system was somewhat stabilized, in order to pay for servers and such we had to ask for favors from Greeks who lived abroad. Imagine having half a dozen servers to pay and not knowing if you will manage to find someone/someway to send money abroad. So yes, the guy was a fucking disaster. But you have the luxury to judge him without living the consequences of his actions and for that I can't blame you.

RodericDay 9y ago
I grew up in Peru and knew lots of kids who didn't know anything about their own country outside of their little get-rich-quick schemes, and hated anyone who rocked the boat, even as fierce critics sounded warning bells of challenges ahead. The fact that some aspiring-rich techpreneur reduces his complex gambit like you do here is not at all surprising to me. ___ hn is stopping me from replying downstream so: And yet you use ad hominem to advance your own perpective, weird! "I'm greek don't question me on this!" "How dare you bring up my background?"
- elorant 9y ago
  Ad hominem attacks don't work in here dude. This is HN. We either speak with arguments or not at all. Update: I never forbid you for questioning me because I'm Greek. All I said was that as a Greek I know first hand the results of his actions. If you want to argue on that, feel free to do so. As for my background, you don't know it and that's the thing. You're assuming that I'm rich(-ish) and thus drawing a conclusion as to where my interests stand. That's irrelevant though, and highly inappropriate. Don't judge me for what (you think) I am, but for what I say.
  - savvidis 9y ago
    Hey man, "chapeau" for trying to explain how many of us feel. It is interesting to see that many people think they know more than you about greek crisis just because they have read some articles on the news. Also impressed that Gianis' PR worked so well outside Greece. He proved a clever dude for his own sake
RobertoG 9y ago
Are you blaming Varoufakis for the capital controls? "Capital controls were introduced in Greece in June 2015, when Greece's government came to the end of its bailout extension period without having come to an agreement on a further extension with its creditors and the European Central Bank decided not to further increase the level of its Emergency Liquidity Assistance for Greek banks." ( From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_controls_in_Greece https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_controls_in_Greece ) The FED is the lender of last resort in the USA bank system (if I don't remember wrong that was the main reason of its creation). The Bank of Greece was the lender of last resort in the Greece bank system. The ECB should be the lender of last resort for the europeans in the Euroarea. Last time I checked Greeks were european. It's not its job to be an enforcer for foreign interests. Why we allow the ECB to be used as a political weapon or how that is legal is beyond me. That means that we have given all that power to people who don't care about, for now, the Greeks. In fact, Varoufakis is disputing the legality of that movement: https://diem25.org/thegreekfiles/ https://diem25.org/thegreekfiles/
Alupis 9y ago
Yanis Varoufakis became involved in the Greek Government in 2015... well after Greece's financial problems had set in.
jjoonathan 9y ago
I thought he advised the opposite approach to the one the Greek government wound up choosing? In any case, there is no free lunch, and the lunch had already been eaten when he was brought on board. In the absence of a miracle I would expect every alternative to be painful. From your experience we can conclude that he did not work a miracle. That's hardly an indictment.
Tyrek 9y ago
anecdata != data. You haven't presented any alternative views on what a presumably more competent economist could have executed on. Just because life was bad doesn't mean that it could have been better.
- elorant 9y ago
  What his predecessor tried to do. Fix the economy. Greece's problem isn't the debt per se, it's the fact that our economy isn't competitive. There's a lot of red tape, many professions are regulated (pharmacies are a prime example), we import way more things than we export, entrepreneurism is very low, public sector is corrupted, the insurance system is bankrupt, and a lot of things don't work as they should in a modern western country. Even if we defaulted in all our debt, which is highly unlikely even if we exit the Eurozone, we'd be in the same position give it a few decades. There are a lot of structural problems in the economy and Varoufakis did nothing to address any of these. All he did was acting like a rock star who is clueless of how things work in the upper levels of EU policy making. In the six or so months of his reign he didn't introduced a single policy to fix structural problems. Not one, nothing, zero, ziltch. He was so fixated in the debt issue and acting like a fucking primadona that he forgot there were other equally pressing matters to attend to. Like running the damn country for one.
  - Apocryphon 9y ago
    So you're advocating for your country to undergo the same sort of economic shock therapy that other states before have undergone?
    - elorant 9y ago
      Why, do you think that if we exit the EU things will become instantly better? It will be much, much worse for the foreseeable future. Greece isn't self-sustained. We import pretty much everything, from oil to fertilizers.
      - Apocryphon 9y ago
guelo 9y ago
Yea but now you're stuck with a lost generation of no growth for the next 20-30 years, and no national pride. Seems like it was worth fighting to avoid having your kids and your kids' kids groveling the Germans forever. The Brits are leaving voluntarily because they have some fucking pride.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  Greece didn't have great options at that point. If they had left EU, they could have unilaterally restructured the German loans, but they would have been hung out to dry with respect to the refugees. They don't have an easily closed border. Suddenly the ridiculous Western decision to destabilize Libya and Syria makes a kind of hideous sense...
wott 9y ago
> You probably have no idea how it is to live in a country that has capital controls Give me a break, young man, it was a common thing in many places until the 80's.
Trundle 9y ago
Being directly affected by a situation should absolutely not be a point for being more knowledgeable on it. Emotional appeal is the refuge of the ignorant.
- elorant 9y ago
  Capital controls are real dude, they're not a figment of my imagination. Try operating an online business while you can't transfer funds abroad and then we can talk about sentimentalism.

dang 9y ago

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines despite many requests to stop.