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1. Thank you Obama. 2. I don't think UBI is the solution. Have you met any trust fund babies who don't have to work? Do you think it's wise to create more

1. Thank you Obama. 2. I don't think UBI is the solution. Have you met any trust fund babies who don't have to work? Do you think it's wise to create more of them?

dsr_ 9y ago
Is it wise to create more of them? Yes, if what you mean is "is it wise to let anyone who has no desire or ability to work subsist at a level where their basic needs are met?" Yes, if what you mean is "is it wise to separate subsistence and health care from work, so that creative destruction of jobs does not condemn the displaced to bankruptcy, homelessness and a shorter lifespan?" No, if what you mean is "is it wise to allow the wealthy to create further generations of trust-fund babies who have no incentive to do anything?"
forkLding 9y ago
I think theres a difference between the money received for UBI and from a trust fund. Please correct me if Im wrong with an amount.
mikeash 9y ago
If you met a trust fund baby who didn't have to work, but still chose to work and live a normal life, would you even know it?
- jgalt212 9y ago
  Yes. I think most folks are keenly aware of which of their friends have "family money".
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Are they, or are they keenly aware of which friends have "family money" and let it change how they live?
awj 9y ago
> Have you met any trust fund babies who don't have to work? Do you think it's wise to create more of them? What is your basis for believing that UBI would create more of them? UBI would be ... universal, so A) society would better adapt since it's pervasive and B) there's no way any single individual would have access to a trust fund baby lifestyle off it.
- jgalt212 9y ago
  If it's truly universal, then the it's good effects will be severely curtailed by the substitution effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_effect
  - neon_electro 9y ago
    As a layperson, could you expand on your point here?
AnimalMuppet 9y ago
> Thank you Obama. Take a look at the animated graph in the middle of the article. There was a lot of movement under Clinton and Bush Jr. as well. Obama didn't fix it, of course (or even stop it), but it's not fair to single out Obama for your scorn.
- damon_c 9y ago
  Yes. The biggest % change was during the years 2003-2008 and as far as I can tell the chart peaked in 2011 and receded slightly after that.
- mcrad 9y ago
  > not fair to single out Obama for your scorn. You mean for failing to convince the general public that Hope is a good approach when faced with a broken economy?
- zanny 9y ago
  Also, changing the tide will required the combined desire of a sitting president and congress to make it happen. The democratic congress of 08-10 was, at best, a neoliberal shitshow. They had no desire to correct this course.
gehwartzen 9y ago
There is no way anyone will be living off of just a UBI at least in the terms it is currently described. $10k/yr doesn't get you very far especially when it is offset by cutting nearly all other social safety nets.
cbryn 9y ago
The trust fund babies I know make more money than you could imagine, and are conspicuous consumption incarnate.

1. Thank you Obama. 2. I don't think UBI is the solution. Have you met any trust fund babies who don't have to work? Do you think it's wise to create more of them?

dsr_ 9y ago

Is it wise to create more of them? Yes, if what you mean is "is it wise to let anyone who has no desire or ability to work subsist at a level where their basic needs are met?" Yes, if what you mean is "is it wise to separate subsistence and health care from work, so that creative destruction of jobs does not condemn the displaced to bankruptcy, homelessness and a shorter lifespan?" No, if what you mean is "is it wise to allow the wealthy to create further generations of trust-fund babies who have no incentive to do anything?"

forkLding 9y ago

I think theres a difference between the money received for UBI and from a trust fund. Please correct me if Im wrong with an amount.

mikeash 9y ago

If you met a trust fund baby who didn't have to work, but still chose to work and live a normal life, would you even know it?

jgalt212 9y ago
Yes. I think most folks are keenly aware of which of their friends have "family money".
- mikeash 9y ago
  Are they, or are they keenly aware of which friends have "family money" and let it change how they live?

awj 9y ago

> Have you met any trust fund babies who don't have to work? Do you think it's wise to create more of them? What is your basis for believing that UBI would create more of them? UBI would be ... universal, so A) society would better adapt since it's pervasive and B) there's no way any single individual would have access to a trust fund baby lifestyle off it.

jgalt212 9y ago
If it's truly universal, then the it's good effects will be severely curtailed by the substitution effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_effect
- neon_electro 9y ago
  As a layperson, could you expand on your point here?

AnimalMuppet 9y ago

> Thank you Obama. Take a look at the animated graph in the middle of the article. There was a lot of movement under Clinton and Bush Jr. as well. Obama didn't fix it, of course (or even stop it), but it's not fair to single out Obama for your scorn.

damon_c 9y ago
Yes. The biggest % change was during the years 2003-2008 and as far as I can tell the chart peaked in 2011 and receded slightly after that.
mcrad 9y ago
> not fair to single out Obama for your scorn. You mean for failing to convince the general public that Hope is a good approach when faced with a broken economy?
zanny 9y ago
Also, changing the tide will required the combined desire of a sitting president and congress to make it happen. The democratic congress of 08-10 was, at best, a neoliberal shitshow. They had no desire to correct this course.

gehwartzen 9y ago

There is no way anyone will be living off of just a UBI at least in the terms it is currently described. $10k/yr doesn't get you very far especially when it is offset by cutting nearly all other social safety nets.

cbryn 9y ago

The trust fund babies I know make more money than you could imagine, and are conspicuous consumption incarnate.