6 ms·

I thought it was the other way around - that the reason German people pay cash is simply because shops and bars refuse to support credit cards. Whenever I visit

I thought it was the other way around - that the reason German people pay cash is simply because shops and bars refuse to support credit cards. Whenever I visit Berlin I'm so frustrated because I have to plan my spending ahead and make sure I have enough cash in my pocket before I go buy anything.

ant6n 9y ago
Just keep a couple hundred in your pocket, like everybody else and their grandma.
- martinald 9y ago
  What if your wallet gets stolen or you misplace it?
chr4004 9y ago
Absolutely, I too think it's a matter of supply. So often shops refuse to take cards to avoid the fees. I suspect a systematic or law issue making card transactions more expensive.
martinald 9y ago
Agree, such a pain. Especially in restaurants if you take a large group out and want to pick the bill up. It has got better but I have been totally caught out with this on one of my first visits to Berlin with a fairly pricey group dinner and I physically cannot take more than €250 out of the ATM a day without taking cash out on CC which involves horrendous cash advance fees. I also don't buy this cc fee argument. It's regulated (and low) in the EU, perhaps 1-2%. This must be lower than the cost of storing cash, counting cash, paying it in to the bank, transporting it, getting fraudulent notes, people giving wrong change, etc etc. The other annoying thing is DB machines not taking visa/mastercard and no notes over €10 (though this may have changed recently), which is all you get out of an ATM when you land at the airport. Such a hassle. I hope Berlin can fix this and the BER airport situation one day.
- kuschku 9y ago
  EC cards have 0.125% fees. That’s an entire order of magnitude cheaper than CC. Of course no one is going to support CC if they can save that much money.
  - martinald 9y ago
    If your gross profit (not including rent and other fixed costs) at a restaurant is, say, 80%, do you still think 1% CC fees are silly? To me this seems like ridiculous premature optimisation. If I go to Germany and I'm having a meal with clients I'll phone ahead and see if they accept CC and won't visit if they don't.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > If your gross profit (not including rent and other fixed costs) at a restaurant is, say, 80%, do you still think 1% CC fees are silly? That's a question, but that's not what things look like. Many German businesses are operating at razor-thin margins, or even at losses. From farmers (which lose around 13ct for every liter milk sold) to small restaurants (often making losses on all of the food, and only minor profit on the drinks) to any other kind of business. If you are a 4 people company and you're trying to compete (and do so successfully) with american multinational chains, then you don't have enough profits to pay 7% CC fees. You'll be lucky if you can afford the 30€/month + 0.125% EC fees, and many businesses can't even do that. > If I go to Germany and I'm having a meal with clients I'll phone ahead and see if they accept CC and won't visit if they don't. Trust me, these businesses prefer not having your business. You'd only make losses for them.
      - martinald 9y ago
        7% CC fees? Are you crazy? The EU regulated it at less than 1%.
        kuschku 9y ago
        The EU regulated VISA and MasterCard, and only since a year ago. AMEX still takes 7% fees, even today, and even MasterCard and VISA could take those fees in 2015 still.

ant6n 9y ago

Just keep a couple hundred in your pocket, like everybody else and their grandma.

martinald 9y ago
What if your wallet gets stolen or you misplace it?

chr4004 9y ago

Absolutely, I too think it's a matter of supply. So often shops refuse to take cards to avoid the fees. I suspect a systematic or law issue making card transactions more expensive.

martinald 9y ago

Agree, such a pain. Especially in restaurants if you take a large group out and want to pick the bill up. It has got better but I have been totally caught out with this on one of my first visits to Berlin with a fairly pricey group dinner and I physically cannot take more than €250 out of the ATM a day without taking cash out on CC which involves horrendous cash advance fees. I also don't buy this cc fee argument. It's regulated (and low) in the EU, perhaps 1-2%. This must be lower than the cost of storing cash, counting cash, paying it in to the bank, transporting it, getting fraudulent notes, people giving wrong change, etc etc. The other annoying thing is DB machines not taking visa/mastercard and no notes over €10 (though this may have changed recently), which is all you get out of an ATM when you land at the airport. Such a hassle. I hope Berlin can fix this and the BER airport situation one day.

kuschku 9y ago
EC cards have 0.125% fees. That’s an entire order of magnitude cheaper than CC. Of course no one is going to support CC if they can save that much money.
- martinald 9y ago
  If your gross profit (not including rent and other fixed costs) at a restaurant is, say, 80%, do you still think 1% CC fees are silly? To me this seems like ridiculous premature optimisation. If I go to Germany and I'm having a meal with clients I'll phone ahead and see if they accept CC and won't visit if they don't.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > If your gross profit (not including rent and other fixed costs) at a restaurant is, say, 80%, do you still think 1% CC fees are silly? That's a question, but that's not what things look like. Many German businesses are operating at razor-thin margins, or even at losses. From farmers (which lose around 13ct for every liter milk sold) to small restaurants (often making losses on all of the food, and only minor profit on the drinks) to any other kind of business. If you are a 4 people company and you're trying to compete (and do so successfully) with american multinational chains, then you don't have enough profits to pay 7% CC fees. You'll be lucky if you can afford the 30€/month + 0.125% EC fees, and many businesses can't even do that. > If I go to Germany and I'm having a meal with clients I'll phone ahead and see if they accept CC and won't visit if they don't. Trust me, these businesses prefer not having your business. You'd only make losses for them.
    - martinald 9y ago
      7% CC fees? Are you crazy? The EU regulated it at less than 1%.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        The EU regulated VISA and MasterCard, and only since a year ago. AMEX still takes 7% fees, even today, and even MasterCard and VISA could take those fees in 2015 still.