6 ms·

First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

95 points by rayboyd 16y ago

drguildo 16y ago
closed beta Wait, what?
- pyre 16y ago
  From http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/ http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/: > Today all Ubuntu Members will have access to a > private PPA so that they can use, test and enjoy > the font. > > The font is scheduled for completion 8th August > and this is when we aim to open the beta to everyone. So the they are opening usage to a select group prior to the actual completion of the font's design.
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    I think that makes sense. Perhaps the foundry asked for it. They wouldn't want to any negative comments because the work is not finished yet.
    - Groxx 16y ago
      And they probably (rightfully so) fear a wave of mostly-uninformed (read: non-typographic-geek) comments.
whalesalad 16y ago
Can someone provide a download to the actual file? I'd love to play around with it, without jumping through hoops on launchpad with openid and such. Anyone have it or have easy access to it?
- rdtsc 16y ago
  The article said it is a closed beta. Perhaps, if you install 10.10 eventually you'll get the new fonts in the repo.
jallmann 16y ago
That really is quite pleasing to look at. And as the article mentions, it matches up against the type in the Ubuntu logo nicely. Take note of the 'u', the 'n' and the 'a'.
jp_sc 16y ago
"Un s a ve d D o cu m e n t 1 - g e d it"... Maybe the kerning is the next thing to improve
- noahlt 16y ago
  The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux.
  - dtf 16y ago
    When you say "bad rendering", do you mean glyph rendering (FreeType) or the layout stack?
    - naner 16y ago
      It sounds like he is talking about rasterization which is handled by FreeType.
      - tptacek 16y ago
        Kerning is a property of the font, not of the renderer.
        naner 16y ago
        I replied to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496177 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496177 The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux. He couldn't have been talking about individual font properties since he said high quality fonts don't make any difference.
        tptacek 16y ago
        I agree. I think it's remarkable that in taking an overt step to improve Linux typography, they managed to compound their problems by introducing a weak, quirky new default font.
hammerdr 16y ago
Anyone know if Dalton Maag is making a serif font, as well? Despite the long lived computer love affair with sans, serif is becoming more important with higher resolution screens (think Retina Display).
aaronbrethorst 16y ago
Great to see! Along the same lines, can anyone shed any light on why Gnome's settings for padding around UI elements is set to such a high value? (compare to OS X, which has very minimal padding around most UI elements).
- windsurfer 16y ago
  The padding is there to make the interface cleaner. It forces developers to be more concise with their components as well as making navigation easier for users. Keep in mind Gnome is meant to be easy to use, not easy on the screen real-estate. If you want a minimalist UI, there are a million alternatives in linux land
  - aaronbrethorst 16y ago
    That's a laudable goal, but it seems like it just wastes space. I don't want minimalism, I want greatness.
  - felxh 16y ago
    I always wondered about that myself. How exactly do huge UI elements make an UI cleaner and easier to use (we are not talking about touch screens or accessibility features here)? I would say that proper spacing and layout/grouping are much more important for designing a clean UI.
  - man1sh 16y ago
    No, seriously. The padding is just too much, to the level that it wastes space.I know too much clutter is bad, but that doesn't mean GNOME people have to increase the padding to this extent. Can we have a middle ground for padding? Nor too less, nor too much.
    - junkbit 16y ago
      If you install Gnome Color Chooser you can select 'compact profile' which is a global setting for padding. It shrinks all of your buttons and other white space without you having to edit the theme by hand: sudo apt-get install gnome-color-chooser Find it in System→Prefs menu after install
volomike 16y ago
The font looks too Star-Trekkie, somewhat Romulan in fact. Nice for a logo, but sucks to see that on all the windows. Remember Nautilus? There was a particular version of Ubuntu that shipped where Nautilus folder doubleclicks kept opening new windows rather than using the same window. DID NOT WANT. And unfortunately Ubuntu shipped with that. The community pushed it back, and so in the next release they knocked that off. So let's hope they don't ship this font as the standard default font. I appreciate them trying to improve the interface, but forcing everyone from right closing windows to left was too drastic in 10.04 LTS. I quickly reverted back to Clearlooks.
snitko 16y ago
When someone talks about Linux problems with fonts rendering now, I get really confused. I worked on Win/Mac/Linux (currently using Macbook and Ubuntu Desktop) and I have to say Linux has the best font rendering. Compare this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_linux.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_linux.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_macosx.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_macosx.pn...
- snitko 16y ago
  With this new font, things look even more amazing. Great font.
megaman821 16y ago
It is such a small thing, but the font rendering quality has always prevented me from enjoying Linux. I read so much while on the computer the horrible rendering and kerning just nag at me until I don't feel like reading anything else until I switch OS's.
- wolverian 16y ago
  Note that font rendering differs massively between distributions. I prefer Ubuntu's softer (OS X -style) look best. Others might prefer Fedora's crisp (Windows-style) rendering.
- djacobs 16y ago
  Is it the rendering or the font choice that you don't like? I, for one, install Lucida Grande as my system font and Monaco or Menlo as my monotype font and think the design looks much fresher. Sure, the rendering isn't 100% perfect, but with sub-pixel smoothing, I really don't mind it.
tptacek 16y ago
The kerning on the 'i' is off (look at the 'B' 'i' pair), the upper 'I' is indistinct, the ascender on the lower 'l' is grotesquely higher than the cap height (look at 'P' 'l'), and the lower 't' and 's' look like the bastard children of Eurostile. I think it's a mess. There's a reason everyone tweaks Bitstream Vera; it works. Novelty sans fonts aren't the reason Linux typography sucks.
- djacobs 16y ago
  I'm okay with the high lowercase L, but I am with ya re: the lowercase T and S, they ain't so great. Is it just me, or did the lowercase T come straight from the Twitter logo?
vrode 16y ago
It's beautiful. Despite the flaws, it warms my heart to see that someone is actually taking interface fonts seriously on Linux. I share the controversial belief that games and software are far too obvious to be the reason why Windows got ahead. I think it is the attention to everyday details like fonts, that made Windows more popular.

95 points by rayboyd 16y ago

drguildo 16y ago

closed beta Wait, what?

pyre 16y ago
From http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/ http://design.canonical.com/2010/07/the-ubuntu-font/: > Today all Ubuntu Members will have access to a > private PPA so that they can use, test and enjoy > the font. > > The font is scheduled for completion 8th August > and this is when we aim to open the beta to everyone. So the they are opening usage to a select group prior to the actual completion of the font's design.
- rdtsc 16y ago
  I think that makes sense. Perhaps the foundry asked for it. They wouldn't want to any negative comments because the work is not finished yet.
  - Groxx 16y ago
    And they probably (rightfully so) fear a wave of mostly-uninformed (read: non-typographic-geek) comments.

whalesalad 16y ago

Can someone provide a download to the actual file? I'd love to play around with it, without jumping through hoops on launchpad with openid and such. Anyone have it or have easy access to it?

rdtsc 16y ago
The article said it is a closed beta. Perhaps, if you install 10.10 eventually you'll get the new fonts in the repo.

jallmann 16y ago

That really is quite pleasing to look at. And as the article mentions, it matches up against the type in the Ubuntu logo nicely. Take note of the 'u', the 'n' and the 'a'.

jp_sc 16y ago

"Un s a ve d D o cu m e n t 1 - g e d it"... Maybe the kerning is the next thing to improve

noahlt 16y ago
The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux.
- dtf 16y ago
  When you say "bad rendering", do you mean glyph rendering (FreeType) or the layout stack?
  - naner 16y ago
    It sounds like he is talking about rasterization which is handled by FreeType.
    - tptacek 16y ago
      Kerning is a property of the font, not of the renderer.
      - naner 16y ago
        I replied to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496177 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496177 The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux. He couldn't have been talking about individual font properties since he said high quality fonts don't make any difference.
        tptacek 16y ago
        I agree. I think it's remarkable that in taking an overt step to improve Linux typography, they managed to compound their problems by introducing a weak, quirky new default font.

hammerdr 16y ago

Anyone know if Dalton Maag is making a serif font, as well? Despite the long lived computer love affair with sans, serif is becoming more important with higher resolution screens (think Retina Display).

aaronbrethorst 16y ago

Great to see! Along the same lines, can anyone shed any light on why Gnome's settings for padding around UI elements is set to such a high value? (compare to OS X, which has very minimal padding around most UI elements).

windsurfer 16y ago
The padding is there to make the interface cleaner. It forces developers to be more concise with their components as well as making navigation easier for users. Keep in mind Gnome is meant to be easy to use, not easy on the screen real-estate. If you want a minimalist UI, there are a million alternatives in linux land
- aaronbrethorst 16y ago
  That's a laudable goal, but it seems like it just wastes space. I don't want minimalism, I want greatness.
- felxh 16y ago
  I always wondered about that myself. How exactly do huge UI elements make an UI cleaner and easier to use (we are not talking about touch screens or accessibility features here)? I would say that proper spacing and layout/grouping are much more important for designing a clean UI.
- man1sh 16y ago
  No, seriously. The padding is just too much, to the level that it wastes space.I know too much clutter is bad, but that doesn't mean GNOME people have to increase the padding to this extent. Can we have a middle ground for padding? Nor too less, nor too much.
  - junkbit 16y ago
    If you install Gnome Color Chooser you can select 'compact profile' which is a global setting for padding. It shrinks all of your buttons and other white space without you having to edit the theme by hand: sudo apt-get install gnome-color-chooser Find it in System→Prefs menu after install

volomike 16y ago

The font looks too Star-Trekkie, somewhat Romulan in fact. Nice for a logo, but sucks to see that on all the windows. Remember Nautilus? There was a particular version of Ubuntu that shipped where Nautilus folder doubleclicks kept opening new windows rather than using the same window. DID NOT WANT. And unfortunately Ubuntu shipped with that. The community pushed it back, and so in the next release they knocked that off. So let's hope they don't ship this font as the standard default font. I appreciate them trying to improve the interface, but forcing everyone from right closing windows to left was too drastic in 10.04 LTS. I quickly reverted back to Clearlooks.

snitko 16y ago

When someone talks about Linux problems with fonts rendering now, I get really confused. I worked on Win/Mac/Linux (currently using Macbook and Ubuntu Desktop) and I have to say Linux has the best font rendering. Compare this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_linux.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_linux.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_macosx.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/113891/pics/font_rendering_macosx.pn...

snitko 16y ago
With this new font, things look even more amazing. Great font.

megaman821 16y ago

It is such a small thing, but the font rendering quality has always prevented me from enjoying Linux. I read so much while on the computer the horrible rendering and kerning just nag at me until I don't feel like reading anything else until I switch OS's.

wolverian 16y ago
Note that font rendering differs massively between distributions. I prefer Ubuntu's softer (OS X -style) look best. Others might prefer Fedora's crisp (Windows-style) rendering.
djacobs 16y ago
Is it the rendering or the font choice that you don't like? I, for one, install Lucida Grande as my system font and Monaco or Menlo as my monotype font and think the design looks much fresher. Sure, the rendering isn't 100% perfect, but with sub-pixel smoothing, I really don't mind it.

tptacek 16y ago

The kerning on the 'i' is off (look at the 'B' 'i' pair), the upper 'I' is indistinct, the ascender on the lower 'l' is grotesquely higher than the cap height (look at 'P' 'l'), and the lower 't' and 's' look like the bastard children of Eurostile. I think it's a mess. There's a reason everyone tweaks Bitstream Vera; it works. Novelty sans fonts aren't the reason Linux typography sucks.

djacobs 16y ago
I'm okay with the high lowercase L, but I am with ya re: the lowercase T and S, they ain't so great. Is it just me, or did the lowercase T come straight from the Twitter logo?

vrode 16y ago

It's beautiful. Despite the flaws, it warms my heart to see that someone is actually taking interface fonts seriously on Linux. I share the controversial belief that games and software are far too obvious to be the reason why Windows got ahead. I think it is the attention to everyday details like fonts, that made Windows more popular.