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Almost all European countries had Molotov-Ribbentrop-like pact with Germany, including UK and Poland. MR-pact was just the last one; made after UK and France sa
by vetinari 9y ago
Almost all European countries had Molotov-Ribbentrop-like pact with Germany, including UK and Poland. MR-pact was just the last one; made after UK and France sabotaged Molotov's effort to make pact with them and after the Austrian Anschluss and breaking of Czechoslovakia. They wanted Germany to attack the USSR and not to be bound to help, just like they looked the other way after Poland was attacked later that year.
- oblio 9y agoAny links for this? It's the first time I hear about it.
- vetinari 9y agoFor the Polish pact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggr... Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJwoygYdTmY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJwoygYdTmY is an exchange between Tusk and Putin on the topic. I haven't found a better video. About the Molotov negotiation, it is in the book by Nikolai Starikov, Who set Hitler against Stalin?, (ISBN 978-5-496-00332-2). It is in Russian, unfortunately. Excerpts have been translated to English, the part I was talking about is here: https://orientalreview.org/2015/04/18/episode-15-poland-betrayed-v/ https://orientalreview.org/2015/04/18/episode-15-poland-betr...
- Sommersonn 9y agoYou're confusing non-aggression pacts with MR pact, which in fact DIVIDED Europe between two different dictators and basically lead to WW2. Also that guy Starikov is nota a historian, but an ultra-right nationalist playing current Kremlin tune. So his "works" should be taken with a truckloads of salt.
- vetinari 9y agoNice ad-hominem and credentialism you have there, do you have anything that refutes his points?
- Sommersonn 9y agoHow about common sense? Or you plan to detail the discussion by switching context to talking about far-right fiction?
- vetinari 9y agoWell, if it is a far-right fiction, it will be easy to refute it's point instead of ad-homineming the author, right?
- Sommersonn 9y agoWrong. That would be derailing.
- vetinari 9y agoOK, I take is that you don't have any counterargument, but you refuse it based on ideology. Have a nice day.
- arethuza 9y agoYes, but only the Soviets joined in with the Germans in invading Poland!
- vetinari 9y agoYes, but somehow magically they stopped at Curzon line. I.e. they took back exactly the same lands, that Poles took them 20 years before. At the dawn of WW2, Poles weren't innocent bystander either. They happily tooks parts of Czechoslovakia.
- Sommersonn 9y agoWhat "same lands" are you talking about? Poland had same rights as Bolsheviks to parts of Russian Empire. If you don't know, Lenin proclaimed that Bolsheviks aren't successors to Tsarist Russia.
- vetinari 9y agoEast of Curzon line. You know, that agreement that was made after WW1 (and therefore after USSR was established) and broken by the 1920-war?
- Sommersonn 9y agoCurzon line was suggested _during_ the war. Besides, as I said - Poland had the same rights to these territories, so it was a fair game of whoever captured them first. And if we're talking about broken agreements - Bolsheviks broke that agreement first.
- vetinari 9y agoSo basically you are saying that it was fair game for Poland to forcibly capture the territory, but when the USSR did the same, it's wrong and despicable? Nice double standards.