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Finland participated in the WW2, moreover, also on the side that lost the war.
by aqsalose 9y ago
Finland participated in the WW2, moreover, also on the side that lost the war.
- arethuza 9y agoBut at the start both France and the UK actually considered sending troops to assist Finland against the Soviets - this was when the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was in place so the Soviets were effectively Nazi allies at that point.
- vetinari 9y agoAlmost all European countries had Molotov-Ribbentrop-like pact with Germany, including UK and Poland. MR-pact was just the last one; made after UK and France sabotaged Molotov's effort to make pact with them and after the Austrian Anschluss and breaking of Czechoslovakia. They wanted Germany to attack the USSR and not to be bound to help, just like they looked the other way after Poland was attacked later that year.
- oblio 9y agoAny links for this? It's the first time I hear about it.
- vetinari 9y agoFor the Polish pact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Non-Aggr... Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJwoygYdTmY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJwoygYdTmY is an exchange between Tusk and Putin on the topic. I haven't found a better video. About the Molotov negotiation, it is in the book by Nikolai Starikov, Who set Hitler against Stalin?, (ISBN 978-5-496-00332-2). It is in Russian, unfortunately. Excerpts have been translated to English, the part I was talking about is here: https://orientalreview.org/2015/04/18/episode-15-poland-betrayed-v/ https://orientalreview.org/2015/04/18/episode-15-poland-betr...
- Sommersonn 9y agoYou're confusing non-aggression pacts with MR pact, which in fact DIVIDED Europe between two different dictators and basically lead to WW2. Also that guy Starikov is nota a historian, but an ultra-right nationalist playing current Kremlin tune. So his "works" should be taken with a truckloads of salt.
- vetinari 9y agoNice ad-hominem and credentialism you have there, do you have anything that refutes his points?
- Sommersonn 9y agoHow about common sense? Or you plan to detail the discussion by switching context to talking about far-right fiction?
- vetinari 9y agoWell, if it is a far-right fiction, it will be easy to refute it's point instead of ad-homineming the author, right?
- Sommersonn 9y agoWrong. That would be derailing.
- vetinari 9y agoOK, I take is that you don't have any counterargument, but you refuse it based on ideology. Have a nice day.
- arethuza 9y agoYes, but only the Soviets joined in with the Germans in invading Poland!
- vetinari 9y agoYes, but somehow magically they stopped at Curzon line. I.e. they took back exactly the same lands, that Poles took them 20 years before. At the dawn of WW2, Poles weren't innocent bystander either. They happily tooks parts of Czechoslovakia.
- Sommersonn 9y agoWhat "same lands" are you talking about? Poland had same rights as Bolsheviks to parts of Russian Empire. If you don't know, Lenin proclaimed that Bolsheviks aren't successors to Tsarist Russia.
- vetinari 9y agoEast of Curzon line. You know, that agreement that was made after WW1 (and therefore after USSR was established) and broken by the 1920-war?
- Sommersonn 9y agoCurzon line was suggested _during_ the war. Besides, as I said - Poland had the same rights to these territories, so it was a fair game of whoever captured them first. And if we're talking about broken agreements - Bolsheviks broke that agreement first.
- vetinari 9y agoSo basically you are saying that it was fair game for Poland to forcibly capture the territory, but when the USSR did the same, it's wrong and despicable? Nice double standards.
- juki 9y agoOf course one should remember that Finland lost WW2 "better" than most countries won it. In fact, many Finns will say that it was a victory. While the war was brutal, Finland is one of the few countries where the casualities were mostly limited to the military. There were only ~2000 civilian deaths. Finland was never occupied[1] and there was no large scale bombing of cities. Finland remained an independent democracy, and prospered after the war. The contrast to the rest of Eastern Europe is pretty stark. [1]: Only one major Finnish city (Viipuri) was occupied by the USSR (after the civilian population of the city was evacuated).
- nullifidian 9y ago>lost WW2 "better" than most countries won it Finland also lost Karelia and other territories in the Winter war. Nominally a different war, but for finns it's a one long conflict with Stalin's Russia.
- asfdsfggtfd 9y agoThis reads like Finland was a willing Nazi ally which is unfair. Finland fought a parallel war to the rest of the world. They spent the whole time defending themselves against invasion from Russia. When Russia was invaded by Germany their former allies stopped supporting them and they had to seek what help they could get.