8 ms·

The piece is stating the obvious, and the reactions in this thread -- predictably -- prove the author's point. Expatriation, even temporary, has so many benefit

The piece is stating the obvious, and the reactions in this thread -- predictably -- prove the author's point. Expatriation, even temporary, has so many benefits. I'd be curious to correlate the postures of HN commentators with their provenance and life experience.

DarkKomunalec 9y ago
The piece is also full of guilt for American foreign policy that's mainly decided by special interests, but then gets blamed on ordinary Americans. Aren't they lucky - first they get their democracy subverted by multinational corporations, then they get to feel guilty about what those same corporations do. Source: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...
- gobugat 9y ago
  Where exactly does the author blame "ordinary Americans"? A certain form of "ordinary American spirit" is at fault in their eyes, for sure. Education and cultural experiences, or more precisely lack thereof, seem to be the explaining factors. Hence my question.
- boyce 9y ago
  Blaming the American people is like blaming the cogs in a machine for the design of the product it produces.
  - emilecantin 9y ago
    Have you lost so much faith in your democracy that you don't feel responsible for who you collectively elect? For a people that is always chanting "USA! USA! USA!", "Freedom!", "Democracy!", I find the reactions in this thread pretty rich. You, collectively, are 100% to blame for the actions of your government. You, individually, share 1/300 millionth of that blame. If you don't feel that way, your democracy has failed.
    - boyce 9y ago
      Someone else's democracy. You don't get that flag-waving, chest-beating attitude here in Britain. We're shit and we know we are (as I think the chant goes)
      - emilecantin 9y ago
        Sorry, I assumed you were from the US. The British seem to at least be self-aware. Here in Canada we've always lived under the shadow of our neighbour, so we hear about American Exceptionalism all the time. Even that word, "American" I find somewhat offensive. It's as if they forget that there are 34 other countries on this continent.
      - ionised 9y ago
        > You don't get that flag-waving, chest-beating attitude here in Britain. Brit here. I think we do, just not to the perverse and extreme degree that the USA does. We have a large section of the population in this country that absolutely refuse to entertain any criticism of the former Empire, its treatment of the former colonies and its effect on thew world as a whole. To them, Britian is exceptional.
    - DarkKomunalec 9y ago
      Read my link ( https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... ) - their democracy has failed. I find it hard to blame Americans for all the misinformation their media and politicians feed them.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >The piece is also full of guilt for American foreign policy that's mainly decided by special interests, but then gets blamed on ordinary Americans. Well, ordinary citizens also get to benefit from a strong position of their country in the world arena. Plus, in a democracy ordinary citizens are also to blame for their government's decisions. They can always vote something else, protest, revolt etc. People all around the world have done it for their governments (and of course Americans at different times). Lastly, some (if not most) of those actions also have strong popular support (whether for misinformation, misplaced patriotism, or just because of strong propaganda).
  - candiodari 9y ago
    > Plus, in a democracy ordinary citizens are also to blame for their government's decisions. They can always vote something else, protest, revolt etc. People all around the world have done it for their governments (and of course Americans at different times). Those BASTARD Mosul Kurds ! I KNEW they did something to deserve getting mass-murdered and raped. Thanks for clarifying that not revolting means you are guilty of whatever government happens to rule the piece of land you're currently occupying does. And of course, what it did in the past. I must say, I was not clear on that. Well, I still am not clear on that.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >Those BASTARD Mosul Kurds ! I KNEW they did something to deserve getting mass-murdered and raped. First of all, I wrote "in a democracy". For all the sneer, you missed that part. Second, those "Mosul Kurds" did very much rebel, and for a long long time. For all the sneer, your example doesn't match their history. Third, even if they hadn't that would be irrelevant, as they were a minority in that country. It's the duty of the general population that first and foremost should not let its government do injustice, not of an oppressed minority, that not only doesn't control the government but also has the majority against it. For all the sneer, you missed that obvious counter-argument as well. >Thanks for clarifying that not revolting means you are guilty of whatever government happens to rule the piece of land you're currently occupying does. You're welcome. People in a democracy are not just random bodies occupying random pieces of land and getting on with our lives whatever happens. They are citizens, they vote, they participate in the public discussion, the voice their opinions, etc. Silence is complicity.
rayiner 9y ago
A lot of the immigrants I know are very pro-America. Unsurprising when you consider that, unlike most America-detractors, we have first-hand experience with how miserable other parts of the world can be.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  A lot of the emigrants from the US I know are very anti-America. Unsurprising when you consider that, unlike most America-supporters, they have first-hand experience with how great other parts of the world can be.

DarkKomunalec 9y ago

The piece is also full of guilt for American foreign policy that's mainly decided by special interests, but then gets blamed on ordinary Americans. Aren't they lucky - first they get their democracy subverted by multinational corporations, then they get to feel guilty about what those same corporations do. Source: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

gobugat 9y ago
Where exactly does the author blame "ordinary Americans"? A certain form of "ordinary American spirit" is at fault in their eyes, for sure. Education and cultural experiences, or more precisely lack thereof, seem to be the explaining factors. Hence my question.
boyce 9y ago
Blaming the American people is like blaming the cogs in a machine for the design of the product it produces.
- emilecantin 9y ago
  Have you lost so much faith in your democracy that you don't feel responsible for who you collectively elect? For a people that is always chanting "USA! USA! USA!", "Freedom!", "Democracy!", I find the reactions in this thread pretty rich. You, collectively, are 100% to blame for the actions of your government. You, individually, share 1/300 millionth of that blame. If you don't feel that way, your democracy has failed.
  - boyce 9y ago
    Someone else's democracy. You don't get that flag-waving, chest-beating attitude here in Britain. We're shit and we know we are (as I think the chant goes)
    - emilecantin 9y ago
      Sorry, I assumed you were from the US. The British seem to at least be self-aware. Here in Canada we've always lived under the shadow of our neighbour, so we hear about American Exceptionalism all the time. Even that word, "American" I find somewhat offensive. It's as if they forget that there are 34 other countries on this continent.
    - ionised 9y ago
      > You don't get that flag-waving, chest-beating attitude here in Britain. Brit here. I think we do, just not to the perverse and extreme degree that the USA does. We have a large section of the population in this country that absolutely refuse to entertain any criticism of the former Empire, its treatment of the former colonies and its effect on thew world as a whole. To them, Britian is exceptional.
  - DarkKomunalec 9y ago
    Read my link ( https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... ) - their democracy has failed. I find it hard to blame Americans for all the misinformation their media and politicians feed them.
coldtea 9y ago
>The piece is also full of guilt for American foreign policy that's mainly decided by special interests, but then gets blamed on ordinary Americans. Well, ordinary citizens also get to benefit from a strong position of their country in the world arena. Plus, in a democracy ordinary citizens are also to blame for their government's decisions. They can always vote something else, protest, revolt etc. People all around the world have done it for their governments (and of course Americans at different times). Lastly, some (if not most) of those actions also have strong popular support (whether for misinformation, misplaced patriotism, or just because of strong propaganda).
- candiodari 9y ago
  > Plus, in a democracy ordinary citizens are also to blame for their government's decisions. They can always vote something else, protest, revolt etc. People all around the world have done it for their governments (and of course Americans at different times). Those BASTARD Mosul Kurds ! I KNEW they did something to deserve getting mass-murdered and raped. Thanks for clarifying that not revolting means you are guilty of whatever government happens to rule the piece of land you're currently occupying does. And of course, what it did in the past. I must say, I was not clear on that. Well, I still am not clear on that.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >Those BASTARD Mosul Kurds ! I KNEW they did something to deserve getting mass-murdered and raped. First of all, I wrote "in a democracy". For all the sneer, you missed that part. Second, those "Mosul Kurds" did very much rebel, and for a long long time. For all the sneer, your example doesn't match their history. Third, even if they hadn't that would be irrelevant, as they were a minority in that country. It's the duty of the general population that first and foremost should not let its government do injustice, not of an oppressed minority, that not only doesn't control the government but also has the majority against it. For all the sneer, you missed that obvious counter-argument as well. >Thanks for clarifying that not revolting means you are guilty of whatever government happens to rule the piece of land you're currently occupying does. You're welcome. People in a democracy are not just random bodies occupying random pieces of land and getting on with our lives whatever happens. They are citizens, they vote, they participate in the public discussion, the voice their opinions, etc. Silence is complicity.

rayiner 9y ago

A lot of the immigrants I know are very pro-America. Unsurprising when you consider that, unlike most America-detractors, we have first-hand experience with how miserable other parts of the world can be.

kalleboo 9y ago
A lot of the emigrants from the US I know are very anti-America. Unsurprising when you consider that, unlike most America-supporters, they have first-hand experience with how great other parts of the world can be.