5 ms·

> There is a market force pushing software companies into leftist positions (since influential demographics in the industry are strongly pro-left; also this cre

> There is a market force pushing software companies into leftist positions (since influential demographics in the industry are strongly pro-left; also this creates positive feedback loop). That's bullshit. Write a "manifesto" about how senior executive compensations are to high, the company should be taken over by the employees and that private ownership of properties is a crime. That's the REAL leftist position. Then send that manifesto out to thousands of employees on the company's internal mailing list and see how long you last. People fail to see the point... Yes, there are many "leftist" positions. The above is one of them. The point is that expressing that position on an internal mailing list most certainly puts your employment in jeopardy. It doesn't matter what the position is (abortion, drug legalization, gay weddings, military attacks on civilians, foreign relations, ...), what matter is where you express it.

sunir 9y ago
Please. "No true Scotsman" is not even worth the time. It is a current left wing argument in the United States for "diversity".
- pyvpx 9y ago
  which is odd, because diverse groups are more efficient. you'd think it'd be a hardcore capitalist argument.
  - mason240 9y ago
    Diversity of thought - of which google is now less of.
    - pyvpx 9y ago
      "I think half of this group should not be allowed in here because of their biology" is not a diverse thought, it's a dangerous one that doesn't need to be entertained yet again (Eugenics, etc etc)
      - sunir 9y ago
        You switched your argument from one comment to another; it's unclear what your position is.
        pyvpx 9y ago
        my position is very simple: sheep don't need to hear a wolf out. there is nothing to discuss.
  - sunir 9y ago
    Diversity of genetics is not the same as diversity of thought. The word is being equivocated from one context into the other. It is an old argument that one's ethnicity determines one's personality. I can't say one that I support.
- vedranm 9y ago
  "Diversity" meaning, of course government-regulated and -enforced <identity criterion of your choice> quotas even in private businesses.
vedranm 9y ago
That's old leftist position. New left is identity-based, not class-based.
- thex10 9y ago
  Have you met leftist organizers? No, it's still class-based.
  - vedranm 9y ago
    Really? Why is it, then, that the identity politics was dominating the discourse in the USA during the last election, and likely still is? Why do those who question the ethnic discrimination disguised as "Affirmative Action" get slammed by the leftist media, such as Rand Paul by The Guardian (and others) a few years ago?
    - thex10 9y ago
      To be honest I don't think I'd describe any of our prominent media as leftist. Maybe liberal? Maybe just neurotic. Whatever it is, what you're describing isn't really a left thing.
      - vedranm 9y ago
        Liberal? Founding Fathers were liberals, I wouldn't call these modern oppression-privilege radicals 'liberals'. Just to clarify: I do have some respect for some ideas of the class-based left, unlike for the identity-based one. Roughly speaking, I do agree (though for a different reason) with the idea that the intellectual property should not exist.
  - TheGirondin 9y ago
    Immigration is a perfect example of how the left has traded working class issues for identity politics. FFS, this story itself is a perfect example. Here we have a corporation firing an employee for 'wrong' speech - and the left is in full support. That's a class issue, and the left has clearly sided with corporations over the working class.
peak_body_yo 9y ago
No, the leftist position would be writing a well thought out and mild toned argument that the company has pro white male bias in interviewing (which implies that the hiring bar is lowered for white males and that some white males don't belong in the company) and that the company should create initiatives to end this bias.
onli 9y ago
It's actually not left. These gender ideologies and the application of positive discrimination are an affront to left position. Since more than a hundred years, the left strongest identification trait was the fight to end discrimination. When now discrimination is applied in the name of diversity, that can't be a left value. This is something else, and it comes from somewhere else. I'm not saying the position does not exist, and I'm not saying the groups purporting them don't look like left groups. But talk with some communists or socialists. They can't get behind this. My point is that this gender movement is its own political/ideological thing, that has just a very small overlap with left identification markers. It uses their style, not more. This is probably part of the usual problem, that the left-right distinction doesn't really capture the political landscape.
- vedranm 9y ago
  I haven't seen anyone on the left (in fact, anyone aside from Ron Paul [1]) being critical and calling for the end of Affirmative Action and similar practices, which does not surprise me due to to the "no enemies to the left" formula [2]. I invite you to show me a few examples. [1] http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/161217-paul-says-he-would-have-opposed-civil-rights-act http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/161217-paul... [2] http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=0701-whitehead http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=0701-whitehea...
  - croon 9y ago
    > due to to the "no enemies to the left" formula [2] If that was (still) a thing Hillary would've won in a landslide. There's a lot more dissent in the left than the right.
    - vedranm 9y ago
      Well, Bernie, the supposed candidate of the people, did endorse her, no? At the same time, Ron Paul refused to endorse Trump.
      - 9y ago
vl 9y ago
Funny enough, if he would write a manifesto about topics you suggest, he wouldn't be fired.

sunir 9y ago

Please. "No true Scotsman" is not even worth the time. It is a current left wing argument in the United States for "diversity".

pyvpx 9y ago
which is odd, because diverse groups are more efficient. you'd think it'd be a hardcore capitalist argument.
- mason240 9y ago
  Diversity of thought - of which google is now less of.
  - pyvpx 9y ago
    "I think half of this group should not be allowed in here because of their biology" is not a diverse thought, it's a dangerous one that doesn't need to be entertained yet again (Eugenics, etc etc)
    - sunir 9y ago
      You switched your argument from one comment to another; it's unclear what your position is.
      - pyvpx 9y ago
        my position is very simple: sheep don't need to hear a wolf out. there is nothing to discuss.
- sunir 9y ago
  Diversity of genetics is not the same as diversity of thought. The word is being equivocated from one context into the other. It is an old argument that one's ethnicity determines one's personality. I can't say one that I support.
vedranm 9y ago
"Diversity" meaning, of course government-regulated and -enforced <identity criterion of your choice> quotas even in private businesses.

vedranm 9y ago

That's old leftist position. New left is identity-based, not class-based.

thex10 9y ago
Have you met leftist organizers? No, it's still class-based.
- vedranm 9y ago
  Really? Why is it, then, that the identity politics was dominating the discourse in the USA during the last election, and likely still is? Why do those who question the ethnic discrimination disguised as "Affirmative Action" get slammed by the leftist media, such as Rand Paul by The Guardian (and others) a few years ago?
  - thex10 9y ago
    To be honest I don't think I'd describe any of our prominent media as leftist. Maybe liberal? Maybe just neurotic. Whatever it is, what you're describing isn't really a left thing.
    - vedranm 9y ago
      Liberal? Founding Fathers were liberals, I wouldn't call these modern oppression-privilege radicals 'liberals'. Just to clarify: I do have some respect for some ideas of the class-based left, unlike for the identity-based one. Roughly speaking, I do agree (though for a different reason) with the idea that the intellectual property should not exist.
- TheGirondin 9y ago
  Immigration is a perfect example of how the left has traded working class issues for identity politics. FFS, this story itself is a perfect example. Here we have a corporation firing an employee for 'wrong' speech - and the left is in full support. That's a class issue, and the left has clearly sided with corporations over the working class.

peak_body_yo 9y ago

No, the leftist position would be writing a well thought out and mild toned argument that the company has pro white male bias in interviewing (which implies that the hiring bar is lowered for white males and that some white males don't belong in the company) and that the company should create initiatives to end this bias.

onli 9y ago

It's actually not left. These gender ideologies and the application of positive discrimination are an affront to left position. Since more than a hundred years, the left strongest identification trait was the fight to end discrimination. When now discrimination is applied in the name of diversity, that can't be a left value. This is something else, and it comes from somewhere else. I'm not saying the position does not exist, and I'm not saying the groups purporting them don't look like left groups. But talk with some communists or socialists. They can't get behind this. My point is that this gender movement is its own political/ideological thing, that has just a very small overlap with left identification markers. It uses their style, not more. This is probably part of the usual problem, that the left-right distinction doesn't really capture the political landscape.

vedranm 9y ago
I haven't seen anyone on the left (in fact, anyone aside from Ron Paul [1]) being critical and calling for the end of Affirmative Action and similar practices, which does not surprise me due to to the "no enemies to the left" formula [2]. I invite you to show me a few examples. [1] http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/161217-paul-says-he-would-have-opposed-civil-rights-act http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/161217-paul... [2] http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=0701-whitehead http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=0701-whitehea...
- croon 9y ago
  > due to to the "no enemies to the left" formula [2] If that was (still) a thing Hillary would've won in a landslide. There's a lot more dissent in the left than the right.
  - vedranm 9y ago
    Well, Bernie, the supposed candidate of the people, did endorse her, no? At the same time, Ron Paul refused to endorse Trump.
    - 9y ago

vl 9y ago

Funny enough, if he would write a manifesto about topics you suggest, he wouldn't be fired.