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> Reservation policy has denied hordes and hordes of exceptionally smart, hardworking and merit people their rightful chance of doing good in life. It continues

> Reservation policy has denied hordes and hordes of exceptionally smart, hardworking and merit people their rightful chance of doing good in life. It continues to. This has been one of the key reasons for mass exodus of these people to foreign lands. Proof?

kamaal 9y ago
Proof is living here in India. Watching year after year, your seniors, neighbors, cousins, class mates, tuition mates, office colleagues burn through insane hours entirety of the whole academic life from childhood till late teenage, working for doing good in exams, scoring the top ranks that there are, and yet being denied seats in professional colleges. The very fact that you ask for proof means you are completely disconnected from the everyday reality of life middle class hard working students face in India every single academic year. Even today I meet freshers at IT companies who have stories of having scored in upwards of 95% aggregate marks, and best rank in competitive exams(JEE, NEET, NATA, CET etc) and lose out an engineering seat to some one who had 35-45% marks.
- saimiam 9y ago
  Not proof. Sorry but unless you are a social scientist working in the field, what you said here is just hearsay, not proof.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    I won't debate this further with you. In India the reservation debate has reached a point where things like 'citation needed' and 'provide proof' are now largely excuses to cover for pointless spending towards socialist 'rob peter to pay paul' schemes. Some people find reservation apologists so absurd that a debate isn't relevant any more. The problem and pains faced by hardworking kids from middle class families are now beyond complaints. Most people know by now, nobody cares for them and they have to work far more harder than kids who get reservations. The net result is general merit kids are far more competitive and do well on the longer run. Either way I know nothing will change on the ground, because this is large a political issue. And politicians let the system continue because they get votes in return. For merit people the path is very simple, move out as the system doesn't reward you. There are better places on earth to contribute and build your career.
    - saimiam 9y ago
      Don't kid yourself. It's not a debate when you don't back up your claims with data and/or proof. It's you feeling angry about the world and ranting at it expecting the world to take your word for it. It makes you feel better but the world thinks you just some crazy guy screaming about injustice.
      - depressedpanda 9y ago
        While I understand, and agree with, the sentiment of your skepticism, you come across as quite arrogant in your dismissal. If a problem is political providing proof might be very difficult, since those in power will claim that there is no proof of a problem existing, and hence there is no need to investigate the problem further. This circular logic prevents any kind of proof from ever being produced. I've seen this happen many times myself.
        BeetleB 9y ago
        >If a problem is political providing proof might be very difficult, since those in power will claim that there is no proof of a problem existing, and hence there is no need to investigate the problem further. This circular logic prevents any kind of proof from ever being produced. This topic is very measurable, regardless of the government's stance. The government cannot prevent proof of this. At most they can just not fund it.
        depressedpanda 9y ago
        No, unfortunately it isn't always 'very measureable'. Read your sibling comment; sometimes the government has the necessary data but refuses to release it to anyone. Providing proof may then become prohibitively expensive, and sometimes impossible.
        BeetleB 9y ago
        Do a large scale random sample survey and you'll already learn a lot. The government may have a lot of data, but you don't need it from them. Even in the US, a lot of data is not released on the grounds of confidentiality. That doesn't block doing research on the topic.
  - GenericsMotors 9y ago
    Why are you denying his/her lived experience?
    - saimiam 9y ago
      Because that's how the real world works.. some guy claiming some other guy got shafted out of a engineering degree because some third guy got preferential treatment is hesrsay and therefore bullshit.
    - BeetleB 9y ago
      He did not. He asked for proof. The person responded with anecdotes. That kind of reasoning will just result in another person giving his/her anecdotes stating the opposite. Neither is proof.

kamaal 9y ago

Proof is living here in India. Watching year after year, your seniors, neighbors, cousins, class mates, tuition mates, office colleagues burn through insane hours entirety of the whole academic life from childhood till late teenage, working for doing good in exams, scoring the top ranks that there are, and yet being denied seats in professional colleges. The very fact that you ask for proof means you are completely disconnected from the everyday reality of life middle class hard working students face in India every single academic year. Even today I meet freshers at IT companies who have stories of having scored in upwards of 95% aggregate marks, and best rank in competitive exams(JEE, NEET, NATA, CET etc) and lose out an engineering seat to some one who had 35-45% marks.

saimiam 9y ago
Not proof. Sorry but unless you are a social scientist working in the field, what you said here is just hearsay, not proof.
- kamaal 9y ago
  I won't debate this further with you. In India the reservation debate has reached a point where things like 'citation needed' and 'provide proof' are now largely excuses to cover for pointless spending towards socialist 'rob peter to pay paul' schemes. Some people find reservation apologists so absurd that a debate isn't relevant any more. The problem and pains faced by hardworking kids from middle class families are now beyond complaints. Most people know by now, nobody cares for them and they have to work far more harder than kids who get reservations. The net result is general merit kids are far more competitive and do well on the longer run. Either way I know nothing will change on the ground, because this is large a political issue. And politicians let the system continue because they get votes in return. For merit people the path is very simple, move out as the system doesn't reward you. There are better places on earth to contribute and build your career.
  - saimiam 9y ago
    Don't kid yourself. It's not a debate when you don't back up your claims with data and/or proof. It's you feeling angry about the world and ranting at it expecting the world to take your word for it. It makes you feel better but the world thinks you just some crazy guy screaming about injustice.
    - depressedpanda 9y ago
      While I understand, and agree with, the sentiment of your skepticism, you come across as quite arrogant in your dismissal. If a problem is political providing proof might be very difficult, since those in power will claim that there is no proof of a problem existing, and hence there is no need to investigate the problem further. This circular logic prevents any kind of proof from ever being produced. I've seen this happen many times myself.
      - BeetleB 9y ago
        >If a problem is political providing proof might be very difficult, since those in power will claim that there is no proof of a problem existing, and hence there is no need to investigate the problem further. This circular logic prevents any kind of proof from ever being produced. This topic is very measurable, regardless of the government's stance. The government cannot prevent proof of this. At most they can just not fund it.
        depressedpanda 9y ago
        No, unfortunately it isn't always 'very measureable'. Read your sibling comment; sometimes the government has the necessary data but refuses to release it to anyone. Providing proof may then become prohibitively expensive, and sometimes impossible.
        BeetleB 9y ago
        Do a large scale random sample survey and you'll already learn a lot. The government may have a lot of data, but you don't need it from them. Even in the US, a lot of data is not released on the grounds of confidentiality. That doesn't block doing research on the topic.
- GenericsMotors 9y ago
  Why are you denying his/her lived experience?
  - saimiam 9y ago
    Because that's how the real world works.. some guy claiming some other guy got shafted out of a engineering degree because some third guy got preferential treatment is hesrsay and therefore bullshit.
  - BeetleB 9y ago
    He did not. He asked for proof. The person responded with anecdotes. That kind of reasoning will just result in another person giving his/her anecdotes stating the opposite. Neither is proof.