4 ms·

a) i agree that it's a problem for the whole society not just the corporates. it starts by far earlier as you said b) your argument is that 50% is currently no

a) i agree that it's a problem for the whole society not just the corporates. it starts by far earlier as you said b) your argument is that 50% is currently not possible most companies are <20% in tech positions and <20-30% for management a few years ago even <10% [2] [1] https://pxlnv.com/blog/diversity-of-tech-companies-by-the-numbers-2016/ https://pxlnv.com/blog/diversity-of-tech-companies-by-the-nu... [2] https://unreasonable.is/silicon-valley-more-female-engineers/ https://unreasonable.is/silicon-valley-more-female-engineers...

slackingoff2017 9y ago
Yup. 50% is possible if you reject 3-4 men for every woman you hire for a programmer position. I don't think the percentages in management really matter because you tend to get promoted from lower rungs. Management % probably reflects the programmer hires 5-10 years ago. We really need to look at the percentage of female applicants. In the ~1000 applications I've seen directly from indeed etc, less than 20% we're female. I didn't count, but it seemed closer to 10%. It's so bad that for some job listings I remember not receiving a single female application for 20+ males.
- twobyfour 9y ago
  Is it possible that women switch jobs less frequently than men? Or that they're drawn to different types of companies (e.g. established companies that they expect to have real HR departments and harassment policies, rather than startups that may be exciting but they perceive as presenting a higher risk of being a hostile environment)?
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    They are drawn to different types of industries less volatile and demanding. They also start fewer companies. So choices in life means much more than we want to admit. Of course women are being affected early on just as men but then the discussion should be about that rather than putting the guilt on companies who are just trying to make a business.
    - sardonicbryan 9y ago
      Or, maybe they're drawn to companies that aren't already filled with men with antiquated attitudes toward women. I run a product & design team for a high growth startup. Very demanding and volatile. We coincidentally will have exactly 6/12 female after our newest designer starts after Labor Day. While we definitely cultivate a spirit of diversity and inclusiveness, we don't have any explicit hiring practices other than requiring a woman to be on every hiring panel. Even a basic perusal of the tech press should make it really easy to understand why it might be important for a workplace to have gender diversity. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/14/betterworks-duggan-kim-assault-sexual-manner-lawsuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/14/betterworks-duggan-kim-ass... [2] https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/03/dave-mcclure-has-resigned-as-gp-of-500-startups/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/03/dave-mcclure-has-resigned-... [3] https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/23/female-founders-accuse-vc-justin-caldbeck-of-making-unwanted-advances/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/23/female-founders-accuse-vc-... We are literally working in an industry with an unacceptable amount of sexual assault and harassment. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to form some strong hypotheses around how a male dominated workplace/industry might contribute to that. It doesn't exactly take a "leftist-feminazi-crusader" to be disgusted and want to make a change. It doesn't take Warren Buffett to realize that it might be good business to expand the talent pool in business/industry that faces endemic labor shortages.
- andreasklinger 9y ago
  i meant that the goal atm is not 50% but to get above the 20%

slackingoff2017 9y ago

Yup. 50% is possible if you reject 3-4 men for every woman you hire for a programmer position. I don't think the percentages in management really matter because you tend to get promoted from lower rungs. Management % probably reflects the programmer hires 5-10 years ago. We really need to look at the percentage of female applicants. In the ~1000 applications I've seen directly from indeed etc, less than 20% we're female. I didn't count, but it seemed closer to 10%. It's so bad that for some job listings I remember not receiving a single female application for 20+ males.

twobyfour 9y ago
Is it possible that women switch jobs less frequently than men? Or that they're drawn to different types of companies (e.g. established companies that they expect to have real HR departments and harassment policies, rather than startups that may be exciting but they perceive as presenting a higher risk of being a hostile environment)?
- ThomPete 9y ago
  They are drawn to different types of industries less volatile and demanding. They also start fewer companies. So choices in life means much more than we want to admit. Of course women are being affected early on just as men but then the discussion should be about that rather than putting the guilt on companies who are just trying to make a business.
  - sardonicbryan 9y ago
    Or, maybe they're drawn to companies that aren't already filled with men with antiquated attitudes toward women. I run a product & design team for a high growth startup. Very demanding and volatile. We coincidentally will have exactly 6/12 female after our newest designer starts after Labor Day. While we definitely cultivate a spirit of diversity and inclusiveness, we don't have any explicit hiring practices other than requiring a woman to be on every hiring panel. Even a basic perusal of the tech press should make it really easy to understand why it might be important for a workplace to have gender diversity. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/14/betterworks-duggan-kim-assault-sexual-manner-lawsuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/14/betterworks-duggan-kim-ass... [2] https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/03/dave-mcclure-has-resigned-as-gp-of-500-startups/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/03/dave-mcclure-has-resigned-... [3] https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/23/female-founders-accuse-vc-justin-caldbeck-of-making-unwanted-advances/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/23/female-founders-accuse-vc-... We are literally working in an industry with an unacceptable amount of sexual assault and harassment. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to form some strong hypotheses around how a male dominated workplace/industry might contribute to that. It doesn't exactly take a "leftist-feminazi-crusader" to be disgusted and want to make a change. It doesn't take Warren Buffett to realize that it might be good business to expand the talent pool in business/industry that faces endemic labor shortages.
andreasklinger 9y ago
i meant that the goal atm is not 50% but to get above the 20%