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I don't know how this is possible outside of science fiction but I wonder how popular military service would be on a historical timeline, all else being equal b

I don't know how this is possible outside of science fiction but I wonder how popular military service would be on a historical timeline, all else being equal but the variables being we turn on or off a livable basic income and free of cost health care (like medicare) for all. Would people still be eager to join the US military?

alkonaut 9y ago
The military as a refuge for those who would otherwise have a hard time finding work/education/healthcare etc is probably a US phenomenon - and the US military probably would be less attractive if more progressive politics meant better conditions for all. In countries with pro armies outside the US I believe it's more like any other job such as a policeman. In countries with conscription it's not even a job, it's more like a part of mandatory schooling (I have lived through both kinds - I did it with conscription and now it's a professional career like any other). Trouble with the law, dropping out of school etc here now means you can't become a soldier, just like you can't be a cop.
- Inconel 9y ago
  I don't have a citation or link handy at the moment, and I don't have the ability to find one right now, and I'm going by memory so I will preface this by saying it's entirely possible that I am wrong here, but I believe in the case of the US the military, both the officer and enlisted ranks, have been increasingly coming from fewer families and increasingly wealthier families. This isn't to say they have been coming from the top income brackets, although this may be true for the officer ranks, but instead solidly middle class backgrounds.
- arethuza 9y ago
  "it's more like any other job such as a policeman" I don't know what its like now but in the 80s/90s the people I knew who were in the UK forces were either from very posh backgrounds if they were officers (particularly Guards regiments in the army) or from pretty humble backgrounds for other ranks.
  - alkonaut 9y ago
    Yeah I didn't mean in terms of class but in terms of other status (grades, criminal background) we don't have the "it was either jail or the army" type people as you often hear (perhaps more historically and of course from fiction) about the US.
    - arethuza 9y ago
      I certainly knew a few people from high school who I suspect probably would have ended up in jail had it not been for the Army (NB I did not go to a posh school!).
- usrusr 9y ago
  While the US might be an outlier amongst postindustrial western countries in terms of the military being a survival opportunity for the poor, in the grand historical picture this has probably been the norm more often than the exception. When lost crops meant that you would not likely survive the next winter, a plundering army could count on a steady supply of recruits, much like a fire uses its own great to prepare the raw fuel for quick oxidation.
- usrusr 9y ago
  While the US might be an outlier amongst postindustrial western countries in terms of the military being a survival opportunity for the poor, in the grand historical picture this has probably been the norm more often than the exception. When lost crops meant that you would not likely survive the next winter, a plundering army could count on a steady supply of recruits, much like a fire uses its own great to prepare the raw fuel for quick oxidation.

alkonaut 9y ago

The military as a refuge for those who would otherwise have a hard time finding work/education/healthcare etc is probably a US phenomenon - and the US military probably would be less attractive if more progressive politics meant better conditions for all. In countries with pro armies outside the US I believe it's more like any other job such as a policeman. In countries with conscription it's not even a job, it's more like a part of mandatory schooling (I have lived through both kinds - I did it with conscription and now it's a professional career like any other). Trouble with the law, dropping out of school etc here now means you can't become a soldier, just like you can't be a cop.

Inconel 9y ago
I don't have a citation or link handy at the moment, and I don't have the ability to find one right now, and I'm going by memory so I will preface this by saying it's entirely possible that I am wrong here, but I believe in the case of the US the military, both the officer and enlisted ranks, have been increasingly coming from fewer families and increasingly wealthier families. This isn't to say they have been coming from the top income brackets, although this may be true for the officer ranks, but instead solidly middle class backgrounds.
arethuza 9y ago
"it's more like any other job such as a policeman" I don't know what its like now but in the 80s/90s the people I knew who were in the UK forces were either from very posh backgrounds if they were officers (particularly Guards regiments in the army) or from pretty humble backgrounds for other ranks.
- alkonaut 9y ago
  Yeah I didn't mean in terms of class but in terms of other status (grades, criminal background) we don't have the "it was either jail or the army" type people as you often hear (perhaps more historically and of course from fiction) about the US.
  - arethuza 9y ago
    I certainly knew a few people from high school who I suspect probably would have ended up in jail had it not been for the Army (NB I did not go to a posh school!).
usrusr 9y ago
While the US might be an outlier amongst postindustrial western countries in terms of the military being a survival opportunity for the poor, in the grand historical picture this has probably been the norm more often than the exception. When lost crops meant that you would not likely survive the next winter, a plundering army could count on a steady supply of recruits, much like a fire uses its own great to prepare the raw fuel for quick oxidation.
usrusr 9y ago
While the US might be an outlier amongst postindustrial western countries in terms of the military being a survival opportunity for the poor, in the grand historical picture this has probably been the norm more often than the exception. When lost crops meant that you would not likely survive the next winter, a plundering army could count on a steady supply of recruits, much like a fire uses its own great to prepare the raw fuel for quick oxidation.