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Gender based diversity programs are hurting more than they are helping because they are confusing the role of gender diversity with the role of talent diversity

Gender based diversity programs are hurting more than they are helping because they are confusing the role of gender diversity with the role of talent diversity. These programs are most likely not responsible for qualified women getting jobs and even if they are they are also responsible for qualified men not getting the jobs so nothing is really gained. The idea of qualification is something that is misunderstood far into academia as it assumes some sort of quantitative measurement is possible. The reality is that short of what you have paper on (she's a bachelor he's a bachelor) qualifications really isn't about skills but about personality and I would challenge anyone to find even close to a way of measuring how a person fits into a company short of asking the people who work there whether they think person X fits or not. Furthermore the idea that diversity is better for companies really need to die. Diversity is good in many cases but you can easily have one company filled with women and one company filled with men and having the group of women being of very diverse backgrounds and the group of men being of very diverse backgrounds. You still have diversity. Hell you can even have a group of women being of exactly the same background and a group of men being of exactly the same background and do really really well. The idea the women brings something to the table simply by being women or that men does simply by being men is what is so wrong with this whole conversation. The individual brings something to the table but the individual needs to fit into a culture not being force fed into it. Having hired and interviewed a great deal of people in my life in the tech industry I think it's fair to say that most companies will look for ANY talent they can get to. Talent is extremely hard to find and being a woman or being a man is not enough. More women will hopefully start companies and I hope some of them will hire only women if they feel it's better for their culture. But until they start doing that to the same extent that men does and until they start to the same extent having interest in technology early on, gender based anything will always be hurting more than it will help because just having gender diversity isn't going to make your company better off there simply aren't anything proving that. And just to be clear. I have worked with women and men far better than me. When it comes to the best there really isn't any difference. I have worked for plenty of female bosses and they are as good as the men I have worked with.

tunesmith 9y ago
Sure, if you define diversity as having nothing to do with gender, then of course you don't need women to have diversity. And if you define corporate responsibility as doing only what is needed to put effective people in chairs, then there is no need for diversity programs to meet corporate responsibility (at least, assuming sufficient talent). But your entire comment misses the phenomenon of biases having affected women their entire lives, from what hobbies they were steered towards, to their experiences during education, to their interviewing process, to their working environments after having jobs. These are all part of what gender diversity programs are trying to combat. And honestly, I'd say that this statement right here: > These programs are most likely not responsible for qualified women getting jobs and even if they are they are also responsible for qualified men not getting the jobs so nothing is really gained. is more of a really effective example of the actual problem, and an illustration of why gender diversity programs are needed, than an effective counterpoint against them.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  Thats not what I said. Of course there is gender diversity in genetics alone, but it's not as important or meaningful as claimed and it's ironically the opposite of what you want it to mean i.e. it's not simply a question of bias against women. Biases are affecting men, women, red haired, young people, old people, gays, lesbians, fat people, short people, people with too much education, people with almost none etc their whole life. Singling out gender is exactly what's so wrong with this whole discussion. Try and get a job in SV after you turn 45. The actual problem if you really want to focus on something that would naturally bring more women into the industry, is that less women start companies or get into tech early on. If you for some reason want to solve the problem of gender diversity, get more women to start a tech company. It's really that simple.
- wolfgangK 9y ago
  > Sure, if you define diversity as having nothing to do with gender, I would have sworn that this would be "Not being sexist 101", but apparently words do not mean what I think they should…
- znfi 9y ago

tunesmith 9y ago

Sure, if you define diversity as having nothing to do with gender, then of course you don't need women to have diversity. And if you define corporate responsibility as doing only what is needed to put effective people in chairs, then there is no need for diversity programs to meet corporate responsibility (at least, assuming sufficient talent). But your entire comment misses the phenomenon of biases having affected women their entire lives, from what hobbies they were steered towards, to their experiences during education, to their interviewing process, to their working environments after having jobs. These are all part of what gender diversity programs are trying to combat. And honestly, I'd say that this statement right here: > These programs are most likely not responsible for qualified women getting jobs and even if they are they are also responsible for qualified men not getting the jobs so nothing is really gained. is more of a really effective example of the actual problem, and an illustration of why gender diversity programs are needed, than an effective counterpoint against them.

ThomPete 9y ago
Thats not what I said. Of course there is gender diversity in genetics alone, but it's not as important or meaningful as claimed and it's ironically the opposite of what you want it to mean i.e. it's not simply a question of bias against women. Biases are affecting men, women, red haired, young people, old people, gays, lesbians, fat people, short people, people with too much education, people with almost none etc their whole life. Singling out gender is exactly what's so wrong with this whole discussion. Try and get a job in SV after you turn 45. The actual problem if you really want to focus on something that would naturally bring more women into the industry, is that less women start companies or get into tech early on. If you for some reason want to solve the problem of gender diversity, get more women to start a tech company. It's really that simple.
wolfgangK 9y ago
> Sure, if you define diversity as having nothing to do with gender, I would have sworn that this would be "Not being sexist 101", but apparently words do not mean what I think they should…
znfi 9y ago