4 ms·

Having spent 9 years in the military, I can say with some confidence that even soldiers are not willing to fight a war. War is evil. No one looks forward to it

by capex 9y ago

Having spent 9 years in the military, I can say with some confidence that even soldiers are not willing to fight a war. War is evil. No one looks forward to it (except the generals). But when its thrust upon you, you rise up to the occasion and defend your motherland.

draugadrotten 9y ago
Some European countries, like Sweden, now have 25% of residents with a motherland which is not the country they live in. Would an Afhan boy living in Sweden fight for Sweden, or would he just take a flight back home to his real motherland? Would an American living in Germany fight for Germany, or take the next flight home? I think we all know the answer, and therefore large parts of the people living on European soil will not fight anymore. They would just leave.
- mnm1 9y ago
  Yup, I totally agree. As an immigrant, I sure as hell wouldn't fight for either of the countries I'm a citizen of or any other for that matter. The whole idea of fighting for your country is stupid, idiotic, and frankly insane, especially if there is an alternative. It seems to me even natives, especially in Western Europe, are now realizing this. That's great to see. There truly is nothing more disgusting than war, regardless of the motive (even defense). Nothing can bring people lower than war. Nothing is more insane.
  - biggerbistro 9y ago
    So what happens when you run out of places to run to? Do you just wave goodbye to your Jewish neighbors? Put a headscarf on your wife and tell her not to go outside without a male relative? Head down to the gulags for your shift? The reason we have nice countries like in Western Europe for you to live in is because they have deterrence against invasion by those who wish to take it from us. You can't just leave and expect to wind up in a similar country with Western values that will be unthreatened by the same threats.
  - justin66 9y ago
    > There truly is nothing more disgusting than war The first counterexample that came to mind: to be exterminated without even putting up a fight.
    - snakeanus 9y ago
      It seems that you are assuming that the attacking country would employ some form of genocide tactic.
      - justin66 9y ago
        As I said, merely the first counterexample that came to mind. I'd judge surrendering your freedom and your property without putting up a fight as "more disgusting than war." Allowing an innocent ally to be conquered probably also qualifies. There's really quite a lot of stuff that is "more disgusting than war." But people can feel free to choose what they're disgusted by...
      - reading-at-work 9y ago
        It's a valid example. There are people alive today who remember that exact scenario happening, in Western Europe itself no less.
- snakeanus 9y ago
  Does not really explain the Japan case.
- wonderwonder 9y ago
  The French Foreign Legion would like a word...
- CalRobert 9y ago
  "I think we all know the answer" Please enlighten us then. If you don't have data or personal experience to share, do you have anything of value to contribute? Immigrants to nations have fought for their adopted homes with ferocity in the past. It make sense, really - this is somebody who liked (loved, even) the country so much that they worked hard to get there, as opposed to someone who happened to be born there and so is there by default. Also, one complication to consider in your example of the American in Germany is that US citizens who join foreign militaries risk losing their US citizenship. Of course, for some people that's not a problem (there are a lot of accidental US citizens), but for others and their families it could pose an issue. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/citizenship-and-foreign-military-service.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerati...
turbinerneiter 9y ago
Or invade some poor shits country because freedom.
chrisseaton 9y ago
> No one looks forward to it I have a lot of experience of soldiers and junior officers competing to get posted into units scheduled to deploy on operations.
- aphextron 9y ago
  >I have a lot of experience of soldiers and junior officers competing to get posted into units scheduled to deploy on operations. In the Army there are three types of people: psychopaths, brainwashed patriots, and scared kids. You're describing the first two, and the second one will become the third as soon as bullets start flying.
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    I just can't relate that to the people I know in the military at all. Most people are skilled professionals who are keen to do the best job they can in what are almost always complex situations.
    - aphextron 9y ago
      >I just can't relate that to the people I know in the military at all. Most people are skilled professionals who are keen to do the best job they can in what are almost always complex situations. I imagine you're talking about Navy/Airforce? They tend to be normal intelligent folks for sure. Line units in the Army are a completely different world.
      - chrisseaton 9y ago
        No I'm talking about my experience in line units in the British Army. I think you're working off ancient stereotypes. Modern land warfare is highly technical and extremely mentally and physically demanding. A modern professional army doesn't have any room for psychopaths, brainwashed people, or scared kids. Look at all the effort the military goes into in combating 'brainwashing' - mission command and encouraging people to use as much initiative as possible.

by capex 9y ago

draugadrotten 9y ago

Some European countries, like Sweden, now have 25% of residents with a motherland which is not the country they live in. Would an Afhan boy living in Sweden fight for Sweden, or would he just take a flight back home to his real motherland? Would an American living in Germany fight for Germany, or take the next flight home? I think we all know the answer, and therefore large parts of the people living on European soil will not fight anymore. They would just leave.

mnm1 9y ago
Yup, I totally agree. As an immigrant, I sure as hell wouldn't fight for either of the countries I'm a citizen of or any other for that matter. The whole idea of fighting for your country is stupid, idiotic, and frankly insane, especially if there is an alternative. It seems to me even natives, especially in Western Europe, are now realizing this. That's great to see. There truly is nothing more disgusting than war, regardless of the motive (even defense). Nothing can bring people lower than war. Nothing is more insane.
- biggerbistro 9y ago
  So what happens when you run out of places to run to? Do you just wave goodbye to your Jewish neighbors? Put a headscarf on your wife and tell her not to go outside without a male relative? Head down to the gulags for your shift? The reason we have nice countries like in Western Europe for you to live in is because they have deterrence against invasion by those who wish to take it from us. You can't just leave and expect to wind up in a similar country with Western values that will be unthreatened by the same threats.
- justin66 9y ago
  > There truly is nothing more disgusting than war The first counterexample that came to mind: to be exterminated without even putting up a fight.
  - snakeanus 9y ago
    It seems that you are assuming that the attacking country would employ some form of genocide tactic.
    - justin66 9y ago
      As I said, merely the first counterexample that came to mind. I'd judge surrendering your freedom and your property without putting up a fight as "more disgusting than war." Allowing an innocent ally to be conquered probably also qualifies. There's really quite a lot of stuff that is "more disgusting than war." But people can feel free to choose what they're disgusted by...
    - reading-at-work 9y ago
      It's a valid example. There are people alive today who remember that exact scenario happening, in Western Europe itself no less.
snakeanus 9y ago
Does not really explain the Japan case.
wonderwonder 9y ago
The French Foreign Legion would like a word...
CalRobert 9y ago
"I think we all know the answer" Please enlighten us then. If you don't have data or personal experience to share, do you have anything of value to contribute? Immigrants to nations have fought for their adopted homes with ferocity in the past. It make sense, really - this is somebody who liked (loved, even) the country so much that they worked hard to get there, as opposed to someone who happened to be born there and so is there by default. Also, one complication to consider in your example of the American in Germany is that US citizens who join foreign militaries risk losing their US citizenship. Of course, for some people that's not a problem (there are a lot of accidental US citizens), but for others and their families it could pose an issue. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/citizenship-and-foreign-military-service.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerati...

turbinerneiter 9y ago

Or invade some poor shits country because freedom.

chrisseaton 9y ago

> No one looks forward to it I have a lot of experience of soldiers and junior officers competing to get posted into units scheduled to deploy on operations.

aphextron 9y ago
>I have a lot of experience of soldiers and junior officers competing to get posted into units scheduled to deploy on operations. In the Army there are three types of people: psychopaths, brainwashed patriots, and scared kids. You're describing the first two, and the second one will become the third as soon as bullets start flying.
- chrisseaton 9y ago
  I just can't relate that to the people I know in the military at all. Most people are skilled professionals who are keen to do the best job they can in what are almost always complex situations.
  - aphextron 9y ago
    >I just can't relate that to the people I know in the military at all. Most people are skilled professionals who are keen to do the best job they can in what are almost always complex situations. I imagine you're talking about Navy/Airforce? They tend to be normal intelligent folks for sure. Line units in the Army are a completely different world.
    - chrisseaton 9y ago
      No I'm talking about my experience in line units in the British Army. I think you're working off ancient stereotypes. Modern land warfare is highly technical and extremely mentally and physically demanding. A modern professional army doesn't have any room for psychopaths, brainwashed people, or scared kids. Look at all the effort the military goes into in combating 'brainwashing' - mission command and encouraging people to use as much initiative as possible.