4 ms·

> Might it be true that women are just naturally much less attracted to STEM than men? No. In India in 2015, 45% of CS undergrads were women[0]. In the US, i

> Might it be true that women are just naturally much less attracted to STEM than men? No. In India in 2015, 45% of CS undergrads were women[0]. In the US, in 1984, it was 37%[1], as opposed to 18% in 2010. The downvotes are because you can tell the answer to your question in about 5 minutes of Googling. [0]: http://www.hcixb.org/papers_2017/hcixb17-final-37.pdf http://www.hcixb.org/papers_2017/hcixb17-final-37.pdf [1]: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-happened-all-women-computer-science-1-180953111/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/what-happened-all-w...

hasenj 9y ago
I've noticed in third world countries more women go to STEM than in the west. It's probably because of economic or social pressure. There's also no culture of "following your passion"; instead people follow what they think will give them a good career. There's less economic or social pressure in the west so people tend to choose more to their liking and "follow their passion".
- dreamfactor 9y ago
  > people tend to choose more to their liking and "follow their passion" Not to have a go at you personally but this is revealing of a highly middle class bubble that a lot of people are trying to reason from within (including that silly kid at google). It's like a moral and socio-political version of the Blub paradox. It's the same reason that it isn't possible to be racist against whites (in the West) or sexist against men, and why that is hard to understand if you are white or a man (you don't know you are in the privilege bubble and it seems inequitable).
  - hasenj 9y ago
    Not having a go at you personally, but saying it's not possible to be racist against whites is an obvious tell that you want to make policies that discriminate against whites, and therefore you are probably racist. (I'm not even white).
    - dreamfactor 9y ago
      Yeah that's what I thought until a black friend very kindly and patiently spelt it out and it still took me a while. It's counterintuitive and nominally smart people don't get it - and are much more adept at finding justifications as to why their thoughts are right, and taking down anything which challenges that. 'Honky' doesn't carry the offence of 'nigger' and there's a good reason for that. (I'm white and I don't really care what people call me.)
      - hasenj 9y ago
        Sounds like your "friend" emotionally abused you into thinking you are a bad person. How else would someone think it's ok to be discriminated against?
        dreamfactor 9y ago
        Well this is the thing, you can't really discriminate against somebody with privilege, simply by definition. You have to actively promote those who don't in order to come anywhere near a remotely fair and efficient system that gives opportunities to those who qualify on merit.
      - tomp 9y ago
        Have you ever considered the option that your black friends was wrong? (Hint: if he was saying you can't be racist against whites, he was wrong and, funny enough, racist.) Edit: to expand on the above point, the funny thing is, people peddling this kind of bullshit know it's bullshit. For example, feminists want "social justice", and try to redefine "racism" as "institutional racism". But, obiously, by prefixing other adjectives to the words, they're modifying the words themselves - "justice" is just "justice", if you're talking about "social justice", you're obviously not talking about actual "justice", because if you were, you'd simply use the word "justice" without any additional qualifying adjectives. But then, most people respond to emotional arguments way more than to rational arguments, so that's where the war is fought, and it keeps escalating until we get Trump.
        9y ago

hasenj 9y ago

I've noticed in third world countries more women go to STEM than in the west. It's probably because of economic or social pressure. There's also no culture of "following your passion"; instead people follow what they think will give them a good career. There's less economic or social pressure in the west so people tend to choose more to their liking and "follow their passion".

dreamfactor 9y ago
> people tend to choose more to their liking and "follow their passion" Not to have a go at you personally but this is revealing of a highly middle class bubble that a lot of people are trying to reason from within (including that silly kid at google). It's like a moral and socio-political version of the Blub paradox. It's the same reason that it isn't possible to be racist against whites (in the West) or sexist against men, and why that is hard to understand if you are white or a man (you don't know you are in the privilege bubble and it seems inequitable).
- hasenj 9y ago
  Not having a go at you personally, but saying it's not possible to be racist against whites is an obvious tell that you want to make policies that discriminate against whites, and therefore you are probably racist. (I'm not even white).
  - dreamfactor 9y ago
    Yeah that's what I thought until a black friend very kindly and patiently spelt it out and it still took me a while. It's counterintuitive and nominally smart people don't get it - and are much more adept at finding justifications as to why their thoughts are right, and taking down anything which challenges that. 'Honky' doesn't carry the offence of 'nigger' and there's a good reason for that. (I'm white and I don't really care what people call me.)
    - hasenj 9y ago
      Sounds like your "friend" emotionally abused you into thinking you are a bad person. How else would someone think it's ok to be discriminated against?
      - dreamfactor 9y ago
        Well this is the thing, you can't really discriminate against somebody with privilege, simply by definition. You have to actively promote those who don't in order to come anywhere near a remotely fair and efficient system that gives opportunities to those who qualify on merit.
    - tomp 9y ago
      Have you ever considered the option that your black friends was wrong? (Hint: if he was saying you can't be racist against whites, he was wrong and, funny enough, racist.) Edit: to expand on the above point, the funny thing is, people peddling this kind of bullshit know it's bullshit. For example, feminists want "social justice", and try to redefine "racism" as "institutional racism". But, obiously, by prefixing other adjectives to the words, they're modifying the words themselves - "justice" is just "justice", if you're talking about "social justice", you're obviously not talking about actual "justice", because if you were, you'd simply use the word "justice" without any additional qualifying adjectives. But then, most people respond to emotional arguments way more than to rational arguments, so that's where the war is fought, and it keeps escalating until we get Trump.
      - 9y ago