4 ms·

Speech=violence is perhaps the most hyperbolically nonsensical belief held by any political group today.

by ctlby 9y ago

kevingadd 9y ago
United States law classifies specific forms of speech as illegal, in some cases because they incite violence. There's obviously an objective difference between saying 'you should go murder that guy' and twisting the knife yourself but it's pointlessly reductive to act as if all speech is harmless or fully equivalent.
tunesmith 9y ago
I agree as someone liberal/progressive, thinks the manifesto is generally idiotic, etc. Progressives are doing themselves a huge disservice to cede the moral authority on free speech to the alt-right.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  The other one they ceded, and the one that lost the election probably, was the traditionally leftist ideas such as anti-globalization and concerns for the workers. Chomsky and even Sanders not that long ago were railing against NAFTA and Open Borders. But then the current president picked and ran with those ideas and the Left was well left (pun intended) with a few issues such as identity politics, Wall Street donors, but also strangely enough Occupy Wall Street supporters... so they they lost. It should have been a slam dunk against a TV personality. There was perhaps a glimmer of hope, thinking "Ok, now the left will rethink its position, will turn the DNC upside down and a new and vibrant left will appear in the American politics, possibly running with many of the idea that Sanders ran" and then nothing much happened. The main political message so far is being "anti - whatever the president is or does". They botched a nice PR initiative about Russia, it was going so well, until they went to far and now they have nothing left. At last someone there raised the alarm and so they limply came up with the new slogan "Better Deal: Better Jobs, Better Wages, Better Future" "https://www.vox.com/2017/7/23/16016676/chuck-schumer-democrats-populism" https://www.vox.com/2017/7/23/16016676/chuck-schumer-democra... but I think it is too little, too late. It's doing to be an uphill battle. I just expected more, not sure why.. Instead I got a stream of nonsense about Russia, a bunch of anti Trump rallies, how many scoops of ice creams he had and so on.
  - tunesmith 9y ago
    There was a time during the campaign that there was a real and honest debate about how the D campaign should have messaged against him. On the one hand, focus on his policies, but the problem there is that it would have "normalized" his behavior. So they made the choice to focus on how he's not normal. I guess it's easy to believe it's the wrong choice now but I'm not sure it was such a clear choice then. OT of course!
    - rtx 9y ago
      It would have been if they actually believed in the message.

Speech=violence is perhaps the most hyperbolically nonsensical belief held by any political group today.

by ctlby 9y ago

Speech=violence is perhaps the most hyperbolically nonsensical belief held by any political group today.

United States law classifies specific forms of speech as illegal, in some cases because they incite violence. There's obviously an objective difference between saying 'you should go murder that guy' and twisting the knife yourself but it's pointlessly reductive to act as if all speech is harmless or fully equivalent.

tunesmith 9y ago

I agree as someone liberal/progressive, thinks the manifesto is generally idiotic, etc. Progressives are doing themselves a huge disservice to cede the moral authority on free speech to the alt-right.

rdtsc 9y ago
The other one they ceded, and the one that lost the election probably, was the traditionally leftist ideas such as anti-globalization and concerns for the workers. Chomsky and even Sanders not that long ago were railing against NAFTA and Open Borders. But then the current president picked and ran with those ideas and the Left was well left (pun intended) with a few issues such as identity politics, Wall Street donors, but also strangely enough Occupy Wall Street supporters... so they they lost. It should have been a slam dunk against a TV personality. There was perhaps a glimmer of hope, thinking "Ok, now the left will rethink its position, will turn the DNC upside down and a new and vibrant left will appear in the American politics, possibly running with many of the idea that Sanders ran" and then nothing much happened. The main political message so far is being "anti - whatever the president is or does". They botched a nice PR initiative about Russia, it was going so well, until they went to far and now they have nothing left. At last someone there raised the alarm and so they limply came up with the new slogan "Better Deal: Better Jobs, Better Wages, Better Future" "https://www.vox.com/2017/7/23/16016676/chuck-schumer-democrats-populism" https://www.vox.com/2017/7/23/16016676/chuck-schumer-democra... but I think it is too little, too late. It's doing to be an uphill battle. I just expected more, not sure why.. Instead I got a stream of nonsense about Russia, a bunch of anti Trump rallies, how many scoops of ice creams he had and so on.
- tunesmith 9y ago
  There was a time during the campaign that there was a real and honest debate about how the D campaign should have messaged against him. On the one hand, focus on his policies, but the problem there is that it would have "normalized" his behavior. So they made the choice to focus on how he's not normal. I guess it's easy to believe it's the wrong choice now but I'm not sure it was such a clear choice then. OT of course!
  - rtx 9y ago
    It would have been if they actually believed in the message.