6 ms·

As a white man, I have concerns that my ethnic / gender group is being persecuted. How should I raise these issues for discussion, in a professional environment

As a white man, I have concerns that my ethnic / gender group is being persecuted. How should I raise these issues for discussion, in a professional environment?

donohoe 9y ago
Well, I can tell you were NOT to have that discussion: publicly at work. That said, as a white man myself, I would argue very strongly that I am not being "persecuted". Synonyms for this word include: oppress, abuse, victimize, ill-treat, mistreat, maltreat, tyrannize, torment, torture; martyr. I've never felt any of the above. As a white english-speaking immigrant I've never been accosted about my status. I've never been given shit for being an illegal immigrant. I've never been given crap for "stealing American jobs" (and for the record, I am now a US citizen, no arrests, tax-paying, picket fence). But I see it very often to legal non-white immigrants. So you think YOU or your race/gender has been persecuted? You (like me) have no idea what that truly means.
- devrandomguy 9y ago
  What if my grievance is with the people / culture at work?
  - donohoe 9y ago
    Fair question. That is something you'd take to HR. If you think you can't have that conversation with HR (fear of retaliation or mis-understanding etc), then I perhaps a consultation with a attorney that specializes in labor law and the workplace. That is what I'd do if I felt it was a real problem.
    - Kenji 9y ago
      Don't talk to HR. It will escalate the entire situation and you gain nothing. It's like going to the teacher when you don't get along with kids at school - everyone's gonna hate you even more. You need to deescalate the situation and talk to people personally. If that doesn't help, it is time to move on...
- flukus 9y ago
  > Well, I can tell you were NOT to have that discussion: publicly at work. It's clearly acceptable for other ethnicities and genders, many companies will even setup official programs for those groups, so clearly it's ok to discuss publicly at work. That leaves white and male as the only determining factors that make it unacceptable, which is obviously racist and/or sexist.
thex10 9y ago
Depends on the type of persecution you're concerned about. On what basis do you perceive being oppressed for existing as a white male at work?
- devrandomguy 9y ago
  Right now, I do not feel safe discussing this subject. That is why I am asking how to safely discuss it.
  - thex10 9y ago
    Maybe there's a relevant post in the archives of askamanager.com? Also aren't there many other white men around you that you could ask for advice?
padseeker 9y ago
The employees at Google are overwhelmingly white and male. According to this article Google employee makeup is as follows; -70% male/30% female -61% white / 30% Asian, 4% identifying as two or more races, 3% Hispanic, 2% black, and 1% other The tech industry is heavily male and majority Anglo (aka white), with a large Asian representation. I presume that if you are on on hacker news you work in the tech industry or work at a startup of some sort. I would prefer to not sweep your comment under the table. Its conceivable that there might be something that as a white male you are could be 'persecuted' by someone at your place of employment. However you are going to have to provide some real evidence how you are being victimized when the numbers are so tilted in your favor. And if this is true it is most likely one person, perhaps a superior? Gather some evidence in form of emails, documentation, etc. I'm not sure what kind of persecution you are the victim of but your first steps might be to discuss things with your immediate supervisor, or if that person is the source of your persecution then talk to HR or your bosses boss. If you feel like moving to another team or a project might help look for internal postings at the company, talk to other people in other teams to see if you would be a good fit. A lateral move within the company might make a big difference. One thing I would NOT do is write a letter about how women are prone acting neurotic, and complain about general efforts to get more women and minority members involved at your company. I would also advocate against complaining about being a minority based on your political beliefs, that the entire company you work for makes you feel ostracized because your political beliefs don't align with what your employers. That's probably a bad idea.
- tzs 9y ago
  > The employees at Google are overwhelmingly white and male. According to this article Google employee makeup is as follows; -70% male/30% female -61% white / 30% Asian, 4% identifying as two or more races, 3% Hispanic, 2% black, and 1% other. 61% white is quite a bit lower than the white percentage in the general US population, so it's hard to see how Google is "overwhelmingly" white.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
My coworker is a 24-year old white male who was very concerned he wasn't going to get a promotion simply because he was a white male. To be honest, I thought there was a good chance that he wasn't going to either. I'm so glad I'm not a young kid growing up in this age, and that I'm financially secure, and looking to retire in the next 10 years. (He did get the promotion btw, which he definitely deserved.)
- takluyver 9y ago
  So... he did get a promotion, there's no evidence of discrimination, but he was very concerned about it until he got the promotion? The horrors we young white men in tech have to face!
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hjrnunes 9y ago
It's funny how utterly incapable most are to actually directly and specifically answer your question. - I have grievance X, how should I safely discuss it? - I can't possibly have grievance X!

As a white man, I have concerns that my ethnic / gender group is being persecuted. How should I raise these issues for discussion, in a professional environment?

donohoe 9y ago

Well, I can tell you were NOT to have that discussion: publicly at work. That said, as a white man myself, I would argue very strongly that I am not being "persecuted". Synonyms for this word include: oppress, abuse, victimize, ill-treat, mistreat, maltreat, tyrannize, torment, torture; martyr. I've never felt any of the above. As a white english-speaking immigrant I've never been accosted about my status. I've never been given shit for being an illegal immigrant. I've never been given crap for "stealing American jobs" (and for the record, I am now a US citizen, no arrests, tax-paying, picket fence). But I see it very often to legal non-white immigrants. So you think YOU or your race/gender has been persecuted? You (like me) have no idea what that truly means.

devrandomguy 9y ago
What if my grievance is with the people / culture at work?
- donohoe 9y ago
  Fair question. That is something you'd take to HR. If you think you can't have that conversation with HR (fear of retaliation or mis-understanding etc), then I perhaps a consultation with a attorney that specializes in labor law and the workplace. That is what I'd do if I felt it was a real problem.
  - Kenji 9y ago
    Don't talk to HR. It will escalate the entire situation and you gain nothing. It's like going to the teacher when you don't get along with kids at school - everyone's gonna hate you even more. You need to deescalate the situation and talk to people personally. If that doesn't help, it is time to move on...
flukus 9y ago
> Well, I can tell you were NOT to have that discussion: publicly at work. It's clearly acceptable for other ethnicities and genders, many companies will even setup official programs for those groups, so clearly it's ok to discuss publicly at work. That leaves white and male as the only determining factors that make it unacceptable, which is obviously racist and/or sexist.

thex10 9y ago

Depends on the type of persecution you're concerned about. On what basis do you perceive being oppressed for existing as a white male at work?

devrandomguy 9y ago
Right now, I do not feel safe discussing this subject. That is why I am asking how to safely discuss it.
- thex10 9y ago
  Maybe there's a relevant post in the archives of askamanager.com? Also aren't there many other white men around you that you could ask for advice?

padseeker 9y ago

The employees at Google are overwhelmingly white and male. According to this article Google employee makeup is as follows; -70% male/30% female -61% white / 30% Asian, 4% identifying as two or more races, 3% Hispanic, 2% black, and 1% other The tech industry is heavily male and majority Anglo (aka white), with a large Asian representation. I presume that if you are on on hacker news you work in the tech industry or work at a startup of some sort. I would prefer to not sweep your comment under the table. Its conceivable that there might be something that as a white male you are could be 'persecuted' by someone at your place of employment. However you are going to have to provide some real evidence how you are being victimized when the numbers are so tilted in your favor. And if this is true it is most likely one person, perhaps a superior? Gather some evidence in form of emails, documentation, etc. I'm not sure what kind of persecution you are the victim of but your first steps might be to discuss things with your immediate supervisor, or if that person is the source of your persecution then talk to HR or your bosses boss. If you feel like moving to another team or a project might help look for internal postings at the company, talk to other people in other teams to see if you would be a good fit. A lateral move within the company might make a big difference. One thing I would NOT do is write a letter about how women are prone acting neurotic, and complain about general efforts to get more women and minority members involved at your company. I would also advocate against complaining about being a minority based on your political beliefs, that the entire company you work for makes you feel ostracized because your political beliefs don't align with what your employers. That's probably a bad idea.

tzs 9y ago
> The employees at Google are overwhelmingly white and male. According to this article Google employee makeup is as follows; -70% male/30% female -61% white / 30% Asian, 4% identifying as two or more races, 3% Hispanic, 2% black, and 1% other. 61% white is quite a bit lower than the white percentage in the general US population, so it's hard to see how Google is "overwhelmingly" white.

pfarnsworth 9y ago

My coworker is a 24-year old white male who was very concerned he wasn't going to get a promotion simply because he was a white male. To be honest, I thought there was a good chance that he wasn't going to either. I'm so glad I'm not a young kid growing up in this age, and that I'm financially secure, and looking to retire in the next 10 years. (He did get the promotion btw, which he definitely deserved.)

takluyver 9y ago
So... he did get a promotion, there's no evidence of discrimination, but he was very concerned about it until he got the promotion? The horrors we young white men in tech have to face!

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

hjrnunes 9y ago

It's funny how utterly incapable most are to actually directly and specifically answer your question. - I have grievance X, how should I safely discuss it? - I can't possibly have grievance X!