8 ms·

Center-right / right individuals need to start organizing their own groups, companies, meet ups, jobs etc. Vote with our feet, and our skills, and go elsewhere

by PKop 9y ago

Center-right / right individuals need to start organizing their own groups, companies, meet ups, jobs etc. Vote with our feet, and our skills, and go elsewhere. They want to enforce their religion then they can do it without us. There have to be plenty of people sick of watching what they say, walking on eggshells, and pretending to hold political views opposite of their true beliefs just to avoid the wrath of the regressive left. This is only going to get worse, and I don't see why we all have to sit back and take it any more.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
I'd suggest you consider not closing off far left participants from said endeavors. I'm as left as you come, and I'm still appalled by this behavior. Censorship by any other name is still censorship, and they're not rights if you selectively protect them for "your" causes.
- PKop 9y ago
  It would be simply out of survival instinct. Sufficiently strong leftist political views seem to correlate very strongly with the desire for people to mandate others fall in line with their views. Or else.... how many examples do moderate/conservative people need to see before they should worry? Or simply.. go elsewhere. Openness, or simply indifference to personal or political beliefs I thought was the DEFAULT position of most people. It is sadly not that way anymore... this and many many other examples have shown us all. Just search twitter for hundreds of tech-industry employees railing against this guy for trying to present a statistical argument against conventional wisdom. They are no doubt celebrating at this moment that he was fired. Anyone on the fence just needs to ask themselves... what would happen if these same people knew what was in your head? If they heard you speak about your own views? Would they have mercy? Of course not. Who's next?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mempko 9y ago
    Just like on the right there are authoritarian (fascist) and libertarian (Libertarian) beliefs, the left also has authoritarian (Leninist) and libertarian (Anarchist) beliefs. And of course anywhere inbetween. Have you taken the political compass yet?
wavefunction 9y ago
I'm a far leftist and I don't subscribe to PCism. You can ghettoize yourselves all you want but it will do you no favors. If you truly believe in what you say you do you would live your life despite the travails, not wail and bemoan them.
- PKop 9y ago
  How'd that work out for the guy who just got fired? Think he has grounds to be wailing? I guess he just needs to go live elsewhere... kinda like I'm saying.
  - wavefunction 9y ago
    He'll be alright I would assume. I have worked for many places in 'the Rest of America' where my leftist views were looked at askance or even caused me problems in employment because they made right-wing or libertarian-leaning individuals personally uncomfortable. Really it's just intellectualism versus a discomfort examining and considering ideas. Even though I have my personal politics, I don't expect many or most to share them and I don't seek to install them over others. But I do agitate my viewpoint in ways I attempt to be persuasive with. Often I fail, but it's not about 'winning' as some would have it but integrating and synthesizing.
syshum 9y ago
Honestly I think this more Authoritarian / Libertarian than Right / Left. I personally am Left, Libertarian Left. I disagree with many of the assertions in the memo, however I do not believe he should have been fired. Most of the drum beating from SJW's and Diversity Police are from an Authoritarian World view, where tolerance of views they disagree with is not allowed, can not be openly discussed, and should be suppressed by any means necessary We need to expand the conversation beyond Left / Right, to include what is means to be Authoritarian, or Libertarian
- PKop 9y ago
  Fair enough, and I appreciate that point of view. But, and this is important: you don't have any power. People that are tolerant and acceptable are not the vocal minority. And those in power either agree with the SJW vocal minority, or they are afraid to oppose them. So what I said above still stands unless their is some concerted effort to change these types of policies and expectations that result in what happened in this scenario. Now, most people wont write a company wide memo outlining their "controversial" views because they have too strong of a self-preservation instinct. What I'm pointing out is... are people going to get sick of holding back, keeping their thoughts to themselves, lying so as to avoid judgement. I bet there's a massive amount of readers just on this site that completely disagree with the outcome in this instance. But they are irrelevant. Because nobody will do anything about it, and the next person to speak up will get fired also. So... nice tolerant open-minded liberals have no power in the face of motivated passionate regressive SJW liberals.
  - syshum 9y ago
    I understand all of that, but you put it in the context of Center/Right persons forming groups and finding employment with Center/Right Organizations I do not see where that solves the discourse problem, all you end up with is a bunch of Authoritiarna Right companies in a Right Echo Chamber and a bunch of Authoritarian Left companies in a left Echo Chamber The solution is to get back to promoting true free expression and the idea that "I disagree with what you have to say, but respect you for saying it" Free Speech is under massive assault, but not from government but from societal sanction which is just as bad and just as dangerous Societal sanction has a habit of becoming Government Censorship in short order
nannePOPI 9y ago
there is no place in the world where you can do this. All countries force you to hire "diversity" at a certain point.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
chrissnell 9y ago
This makes me a little sad. I love my job and wouldn't leave. In general, I've been very happy working for SFBA companies for the last five years. What I don't like is the greater political culture of our industry and a feeling that I will be targeted if I somehow--even casually or unintentionally--identify/signal as conservative around my peers. We now live in a world where conservative views are equated with violence--see responses to my top-level post. This is one small moral and logical step away from advocating violence against conservatives. It's quite scary and makes for an uninclusive environment for many of us.

by PKop 9y ago

toomuchtodo 9y ago

I'd suggest you consider not closing off far left participants from said endeavors. I'm as left as you come, and I'm still appalled by this behavior. Censorship by any other name is still censorship, and they're not rights if you selectively protect them for "your" causes.

PKop 9y ago
It would be simply out of survival instinct. Sufficiently strong leftist political views seem to correlate very strongly with the desire for people to mandate others fall in line with their views. Or else.... how many examples do moderate/conservative people need to see before they should worry? Or simply.. go elsewhere. Openness, or simply indifference to personal or political beliefs I thought was the DEFAULT position of most people. It is sadly not that way anymore... this and many many other examples have shown us all. Just search twitter for hundreds of tech-industry employees railing against this guy for trying to present a statistical argument against conventional wisdom. They are no doubt celebrating at this moment that he was fired. Anyone on the fence just needs to ask themselves... what would happen if these same people knew what was in your head? If they heard you speak about your own views? Would they have mercy? Of course not. Who's next?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mempko 9y ago
  Just like on the right there are authoritarian (fascist) and libertarian (Libertarian) beliefs, the left also has authoritarian (Leninist) and libertarian (Anarchist) beliefs. And of course anywhere inbetween. Have you taken the political compass yet?

wavefunction 9y ago

I'm a far leftist and I don't subscribe to PCism. You can ghettoize yourselves all you want but it will do you no favors. If you truly believe in what you say you do you would live your life despite the travails, not wail and bemoan them.

PKop 9y ago
How'd that work out for the guy who just got fired? Think he has grounds to be wailing? I guess he just needs to go live elsewhere... kinda like I'm saying.
- wavefunction 9y ago
  He'll be alright I would assume. I have worked for many places in 'the Rest of America' where my leftist views were looked at askance or even caused me problems in employment because they made right-wing or libertarian-leaning individuals personally uncomfortable. Really it's just intellectualism versus a discomfort examining and considering ideas. Even though I have my personal politics, I don't expect many or most to share them and I don't seek to install them over others. But I do agitate my viewpoint in ways I attempt to be persuasive with. Often I fail, but it's not about 'winning' as some would have it but integrating and synthesizing.

syshum 9y ago

Honestly I think this more Authoritarian / Libertarian than Right / Left. I personally am Left, Libertarian Left. I disagree with many of the assertions in the memo, however I do not believe he should have been fired. Most of the drum beating from SJW's and Diversity Police are from an Authoritarian World view, where tolerance of views they disagree with is not allowed, can not be openly discussed, and should be suppressed by any means necessary We need to expand the conversation beyond Left / Right, to include what is means to be Authoritarian, or Libertarian

PKop 9y ago
Fair enough, and I appreciate that point of view. But, and this is important: you don't have any power. People that are tolerant and acceptable are not the vocal minority. And those in power either agree with the SJW vocal minority, or they are afraid to oppose them. So what I said above still stands unless their is some concerted effort to change these types of policies and expectations that result in what happened in this scenario. Now, most people wont write a company wide memo outlining their "controversial" views because they have too strong of a self-preservation instinct. What I'm pointing out is... are people going to get sick of holding back, keeping their thoughts to themselves, lying so as to avoid judgement. I bet there's a massive amount of readers just on this site that completely disagree with the outcome in this instance. But they are irrelevant. Because nobody will do anything about it, and the next person to speak up will get fired also. So... nice tolerant open-minded liberals have no power in the face of motivated passionate regressive SJW liberals.
- syshum 9y ago
  I understand all of that, but you put it in the context of Center/Right persons forming groups and finding employment with Center/Right Organizations I do not see where that solves the discourse problem, all you end up with is a bunch of Authoritiarna Right companies in a Right Echo Chamber and a bunch of Authoritarian Left companies in a left Echo Chamber The solution is to get back to promoting true free expression and the idea that "I disagree with what you have to say, but respect you for saying it" Free Speech is under massive assault, but not from government but from societal sanction which is just as bad and just as dangerous Societal sanction has a habit of becoming Government Censorship in short order

nannePOPI 9y ago

there is no place in the world where you can do this. All countries force you to hire "diversity" at a certain point.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

chrissnell 9y ago

This makes me a little sad. I love my job and wouldn't leave. In general, I've been very happy working for SFBA companies for the last five years. What I don't like is the greater political culture of our industry and a feeling that I will be targeted if I somehow--even casually or unintentionally--identify/signal as conservative around my peers. We now live in a world where conservative views are equated with violence--see responses to my top-level post. This is one small moral and logical step away from advocating violence against conservatives. It's quite scary and makes for an uninclusive environment for many of us.