3 ms·

I don't see any text in there that warrants that claim. Is there a specific sentence or two that you could highlight that leads you to your conclusion?

by eej71 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
geofft 9y ago
> I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I think we should strive for more. However, to achieve a more equal gender and race representation, Google has created several discriminatory practices: > - Programs, mentoring, and classes only for people with a certain gender or race [5] > - A high priority queue and special treatment for “diversity” candidates > - Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate > - Reconsidering any set of people if it’s not “diverse” enough, but not showing that same scrutiny in the reverse direction (clear confirmation bias) > - Setting org level OKRs for increased representation which can incentivize illegal discrimination [6] He is saying quite a bit more than that Google is hiring too many women and minorities: he's claiming, in straightforward terms, that Google is illegally discriminating when doing so. Yes, in theory there's a world in which he's right (I'm pretty sure that's not this world) but he is definitely making the claim either way.
- ViktorV 9y ago
  He's saying that Google hires people for the wrong reason. He does not say that he has a problem with hiring any group.
- eej71 9y ago
  I do not read his words as "google is illegally discriminating". He has listed several discriminatory practices. And I see and use the word "discriminatory" in a non-pejorative/non-judgemental sense. The programs are "set asides" for specific groups of people unrelated to "merit". Is that not a fair way to describe that? That's _not_ to say that those who go are meritless, but that the programs differentiate on factors unrelated to merit for the purposes of admission to said program. Is that a factually incorrect description of those programs? Do they not differentiate "applicants" on characteristics unrelated to merit?
  - ajross 9y ago
    How exactly is it possible to have discriminatory practices without practicing discrimination? It honestly seems like you're saying the guy isn't a bigot because grammar.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - geofft 9y ago
    > I do not read his words as "google is illegally discriminating". FWIW, he has said this more directly in an interview: https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=331 https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=331 "They were telling us about a lot of these potentially illegal practices that they've been doing to try to increase diversity." "What kind of practices?" "Well, basically, treating people differently based on what their race is, or gender --" "Oh, you mean racism." "Yeah, basically." "Mmhmm, I see. And it was ultra-secret and unrecorded in what manner?" "So-- most meetings at Google are recorded, anyone at Google can watch it, we're trying to be really open about everything, except for this. They don't want any paper trail for any of these things." "Whoa, okay, why?" "Because, I think, it's illegal. I mean, as some of the internal polls showed, there were a large percent of people that agreed with me on the document. And so if everyone got to see this stuff, then they would really bring up some criticism."

I don't see any text in there that warrants that claim. Is there a specific sentence or two that you could highlight that leads you to your conclusion?

by eej71 9y ago

I don't see any text in there that warrants that claim. Is there a specific sentence or two that you could highlight that leads you to your conclusion?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

geofft 9y ago

> I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I think we should strive for more. However, to achieve a more equal gender and race representation, Google has created several discriminatory practices: > - Programs, mentoring, and classes only for people with a certain gender or race [5] > - A high priority queue and special treatment for “diversity” candidates > - Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate > - Reconsidering any set of people if it’s not “diverse” enough, but not showing that same scrutiny in the reverse direction (clear confirmation bias) > - Setting org level OKRs for increased representation which can incentivize illegal discrimination [6] He is saying quite a bit more than that Google is hiring too many women and minorities: he's claiming, in straightforward terms, that Google is illegally discriminating when doing so. Yes, in theory there's a world in which he's right (I'm pretty sure that's not this world) but he is definitely making the claim either way.

ViktorV 9y ago
He's saying that Google hires people for the wrong reason. He does not say that he has a problem with hiring any group.
eej71 9y ago
I do not read his words as "google is illegally discriminating". He has listed several discriminatory practices. And I see and use the word "discriminatory" in a non-pejorative/non-judgemental sense. The programs are "set asides" for specific groups of people unrelated to "merit". Is that not a fair way to describe that? That's _not_ to say that those who go are meritless, but that the programs differentiate on factors unrelated to merit for the purposes of admission to said program. Is that a factually incorrect description of those programs? Do they not differentiate "applicants" on characteristics unrelated to merit?
- ajross 9y ago
  How exactly is it possible to have discriminatory practices without practicing discrimination? It honestly seems like you're saying the guy isn't a bigot because grammar.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- geofft 9y ago
  > I do not read his words as "google is illegally discriminating". FWIW, he has said this more directly in an interview: https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=331 https://youtu.be/agU-mHFcXdw?t=331 "They were telling us about a lot of these potentially illegal practices that they've been doing to try to increase diversity." "What kind of practices?" "Well, basically, treating people differently based on what their race is, or gender --" "Oh, you mean racism." "Yeah, basically." "Mmhmm, I see. And it was ultra-secret and unrecorded in what manner?" "So-- most meetings at Google are recorded, anyone at Google can watch it, we're trying to be really open about everything, except for this. They don't want any paper trail for any of these things." "Whoa, okay, why?" "Because, I think, it's illegal. I mean, as some of the internal polls showed, there were a large percent of people that agreed with me on the document. And so if everyone got to see this stuff, then they would really bring up some criticism."