5 ms·

I keep hearing this, but I have trouble believing it. That's not to say the players don't believe it, but how much "warmer" could your fingers really need to be

I keep hearing this, but I have trouble believing it. That's not to say the players don't believe it, but how much "warmer" could your fingers really need to be to manage hotkeys and control groups? It looks like button spamming to me. Every time they are doing something of consequence (engaging in combat, retreating, etc.) there are large (at 300 APM rate) pauses in the key spamming. I've also seen these 300 APM players drag a selection box over their units 5-10 times without assigning them an action or control group, then right-click a destination point another 5-10 times. They're spamming APM. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miGIJFsPi5U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miGIJFsPi5U He says specifically he's not spamming, but warming up. It looks like spam to me, since he's hitting the hotkey to select larvae in between actually assigning them. Edit: I suppose my issue with APM is as a unit of performance or "efficiency" (from the Ars article). It's not either of those; it's how fast you can hit a button, and independent of your win-loss record.

jasonlotito 16y ago
Don't confuse APM as the measurement of performance. It's just one measurement of performance. 400 APM doesn't always beat 200 APM. APM has diminishing returns. However, a high rate of meaningful actions will beat a lower rate.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
albemuth 16y ago
It's not about the muscles being warmer, it's about getting in the zone and staying. It's a bit like when a tennis player is waiting for the other to serve, they don't just remain static, they are constantly moving.
mfukar 16y ago
That's how I felt at first, but in 10+ years playing SC I've found the opposite. High APM is important for two reasons: a) Scouting constantly, producing units, upgrades, building buildings, attacking, harassing, retreating, maneuvering. With multiple units/control groups. There is a ton of stuff to be done. b) Optimizing the workqueue, ie. is highly correlated to how good your multitasking is. For instance, leading two units to scout in 1 sec is not good enough if you send them to the same path because your accuracy is bad. Sending them to two different meaningful locations, with a plan for each of them, is. However, correlation does not imply causation. It should be noted that high APM does not make you good, but your APM will go up while you're getting better. Think of it as obtaining a natural aptitude with the game's mechanics. After a while, it may develop as a bit of a reflex, leading to high spamming APM, but there's no doubt that during that time, the player is 100% prepared to squeeze every single bit of (meaningful) actions into all that "spam".
- endgame 16y ago
  I'm no progamer so this is just a guess, but it looks like an order can be fine-tuned while underway: order some units to move somewhere at a very low degree of accuracy and then fine-tune while they are underway, for example. Where the initial click is accurate, this would look a lot like spamming but I can see how it would become a reflex.
  - mfukar 16y ago
    Your guess is in fact correct. If you watch many a game, even on YouTube, you'll find that's exactly what most professional gamers are doing.
Shorel 16y ago
The point with APM is not that much higher is better, but that below 80 APM you are not competitive. Lots of Korean champions have APM in the 200 range and beat those with higher APM.
pohl 16y ago
but how much "warmer" could your fingers really need to be to manage hotkeys and control groups? Just a guess, but I would think that it has more to do with maintaining a psychological state of flow than an athletic 'warmth' of the fingers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

jasonlotito 16y ago

Don't confuse APM as the measurement of performance. It's just one measurement of performance. 400 APM doesn't always beat 200 APM. APM has diminishing returns. However, a high rate of meaningful actions will beat a lower rate.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

albemuth 16y ago

It's not about the muscles being warmer, it's about getting in the zone and staying. It's a bit like when a tennis player is waiting for the other to serve, they don't just remain static, they are constantly moving.

mfukar 16y ago

That's how I felt at first, but in 10+ years playing SC I've found the opposite. High APM is important for two reasons: a) Scouting constantly, producing units, upgrades, building buildings, attacking, harassing, retreating, maneuvering. With multiple units/control groups. There is a ton of stuff to be done. b) Optimizing the workqueue, ie. is highly correlated to how good your multitasking is. For instance, leading two units to scout in 1 sec is not good enough if you send them to the same path because your accuracy is bad. Sending them to two different meaningful locations, with a plan for each of them, is. However, correlation does not imply causation. It should be noted that high APM does not make you good, but your APM will go up while you're getting better. Think of it as obtaining a natural aptitude with the game's mechanics. After a while, it may develop as a bit of a reflex, leading to high spamming APM, but there's no doubt that during that time, the player is 100% prepared to squeeze every single bit of (meaningful) actions into all that "spam".

endgame 16y ago
I'm no progamer so this is just a guess, but it looks like an order can be fine-tuned while underway: order some units to move somewhere at a very low degree of accuracy and then fine-tune while they are underway, for example. Where the initial click is accurate, this would look a lot like spamming but I can see how it would become a reflex.
- mfukar 16y ago
  Your guess is in fact correct. If you watch many a game, even on YouTube, you'll find that's exactly what most professional gamers are doing.

Shorel 16y ago

The point with APM is not that much higher is better, but that below 80 APM you are not competitive. Lots of Korean champions have APM in the 200 range and beat those with higher APM.

pohl 16y ago

but how much "warmer" could your fingers really need to be to manage hotkeys and control groups? Just a guess, but I would think that it has more to do with maintaining a psychological state of flow than an athletic 'warmth' of the fingers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)