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Marriage, monogamy, and (romantic) love are conservative notions that are close to being (or should be) marginalized in my opinion. Romantic love, especially,

Marriage, monogamy, and (romantic) love are conservative notions that are close to being (or should be) marginalized in my opinion. Romantic love, especially, is an extremely superficial and hollow idea exalted to high heavens by the group-think of the masses. I gave up religion, and over the years realized that love is the second, way more sneaky and no less damaging, delusion that humanity indulges in. It has to go the way of the religion. I hope most of you would agree that at least 70%-90% of being in love has something to do with the appearance of your person-of-interest (most of it visual). No matter how you cut it, no matter how much of an intellectual you are and how much you prefer to connect deeply with a person, in the end, given two individuals, you fall in love with the one that is more visually attractive. What a coincidence! And what is visual attraction? In other words why do we find some people more beautiful than others? Because we have a biologically ingrained form of discrimination based on looks. It's lookism plain and simple. Note that I do not buy the silly notion that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and that 'I don't find that person attractive but I'm sure someone else will'. This is somewhat backed by data (e.g., the OKCupid survey), but I have developed this belief on my own. Humans of all races have a built-in instinct to find some visuals more appealing and attractive than others. It is sad but true. To take it to an extreme, if we find some visuals disgusting (e.g., spilled guts, slimy things) we don't all of a sudden go "I'm disgusted by slimy spilled guts of animals, but that's just me, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have the exact opposite reaction, that they love to look at slimy spilled guts". What I'm trying to say is that standards of visual attraction, while not physically objective, are largely biology objective, and yet, it's a bad thing, because it's a symptom of biological imperfection. It's a genetic defect in our biology and 99.99% of humans are afflicted by it. I personally think social individualism is a concept that needs to gain traction in modern society. It is the 'atheism of love'.

debaserab2 9y ago
> I hope most of you would agree that at least 70%-90% of being in love has something to do with the appearance of your person-of-interest (most of it visual). No matter how you cut it, no matter how much of an intellectual you are and how much you prefer to connect deeply with a person, in the end, given two individuals, you fall in love with the one that is more visually attractive No, I don't agree with that even a little bit based on my own experience and that of many of my friends. This comment reads like someone trying to explain to themselves why they are single.
- fizixer 9y ago
  Thought experiment: Imagine you are not dependent on your current partner in any way. You are financially stable (let's say you a multi-millionaire). Either you don't have kids or if you do, somehow they're not dependent on you (or something). Now think of your favorite media personalities that you have a crush on, and imagine one of them meets you in person and takes an elevated level of interest in you. If you don't have any celebrity crushes and that there is no one in the world you find more attractive than your current partner, I give up. If there is, would you be tempted to cheat? If not, I give up. If yes, I rest my case.
  - projektir 9y ago
    Hmm. I'm sympathetic to your overall perspective (that love may not be the universal blessing as it is often perceived) but this is rather unconvincing. You should not confuse how most people are, or how you perceive most people to be, and how you perceive yourself to currently be, with how you or other people could be. I tend to think that if you're still interested in media personalities, people who you don't, at the end of the day, know much about, then you can't really hold high ground on romantic ideas. There are, of course, potentially appropriate and awesome people among media personalities, but there are also plenty of awesome people who are not media personalities, but the reality is, you don't know any of those people, and it's always easy to imagine that a person you know very little about is much better than what you currently have. This is not something you want to trust. Which is too bad, because I think the discussion on what relationships mean should be opened up more, and I think people can develop much more complex preferences than "attractive, popular, wealthy", they just often think that their instincts cannot be overpowered despite that being the human experience in a nutshell.
  - Mahn 9y ago
    Would I have consensual sex with an attractive celebrity if they took an interest in me? Sure. Would I fall in love with an attractive celebrity if they took an interest in me? Well, no, not automatically anyway, I would have to get to know this person first and see how I feel about spending time and do things together. I'd definitely not dump a person I've known and loved for years over a fling with an attractive celebrity that I don't really know on a personal level. You keep saying that sexual attraction and love are the same thing, but they are not.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tomgp 9y ago
The most hacker-news comment ever
RangerScience 9y ago
I appreciate you sharing, but you need to realize that your own, internal experience is guaranteed to be unique to you. This is why studies have to be done; otherwise, we all go off our non-generalizable* personal experiences. * I mean, some part of it is generalizable, but which parts and how? > beauty is in the eye of the beholder I have (and am actually currently) feeling my brain changing its opinions on human aesthetics and forms. This is far from the first time. It is actually a distinct feeling that I quite enjoy, and it's very different from the "acquired taste" feeling from, say, whiskeys. In other words, although I have no idea how many people share this experience, I have a direct, personal experience of beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
- sobani 9y ago
  I have also noticed this. When I was younger, I had 0-1 crushes at any time. But today I find beauty in a lot of different people. Maybe it's maturity, maybe it's the 'clock' in my male brain urging me to find someone, anyone, but like you I do enjoy this change. Maybe one day when I've fully progressed from the binary rating of beauty to the continuous rating I will continue on to the unary rating: everyone is equally beautiful in their own way.
  - RangerScience 9y ago
    > 0-1 crushes at any time It's only this year or so that I've got 1+ (1-3, I think) proper crushes at the same time. Part of it is the "unbundling of intimacy" - if I like you one way, I don't need to like you ALL of the other ways, or be bothered that I might like someone else in more ways / more strongly.
Mahn 9y ago
Respectfully, your argument doesn't hold water because it doesn't look like you understand what being/falling in love is. Sexual attraction is 70%-90% visual appearances and mostly biological, but falling in love is not about sexual urges, it's about happiness. We fall in love with the person that brings happiness and joy to our life by merely spending time together, not necessarily the one we want to ram our genitals into. Most people pursue partners based on sexual urges, sure. But falling in love is a whole other game, and they don't go hand in hand.
- fizixer 9y ago
  > We fall in love with the person that brings happiness and joy to our life by merely spending time together. If you need to spend time with someone in order to have happiness and joy in your life, you have a problem to solve before you even think about love and dating.
  - cousin_it 9y ago
    Many people do have a need to be loved, you can't argue it away.
    - fizixer 9y ago
      Most people have plenty of issues growing up, like low self-esteem, need for validation, etc. A combination of training, therapy, meditation, sense-of-purpose, etc can work wonders.
      - cousin_it 9y ago
        One such issue is nihilism, the kind you're showing here. Growing out of it often makes people happier, unlike growing out of love.
      - 3131s 9y ago
        How about you worry about yourself and stop diagnosing people that choose to be with another person?
alttab 9y ago
This is almost nihilistic.
- ambicapter 9y ago
  Almost?
gfodor 9y ago
Surely you have some irrational beliefs that make you happy and make your life worth living. For example, since you got up this morning, it's evident that you feel living is worthwhile when in fact all evidence points to the fact that death is final and life is meaningless. It seems pretty silly for you to listen to your lizard brain telling you to try to stay alive each day. You get hungry and your brain tells you to eat, and lo and behold you eat food and survive. What a coincidence! Anything other than pure nihilism is a conservative notion should be marginalized. See what I did there? Those who live glass houses should not throw stones.
AnimalMuppet 9y ago
> I hope most of you would agree that at least 70%-90% of being in love has something to do with the appearance of your person-of-interest (most of it visual). Absolutely not. It's her heart and mind that I fell in love with.
bhnmmhmd 9y ago
Actually, men used to like it when women were fat about two centuries ago. Nowadays, it's completely reverse: super-models are all slim. This wouldn't happen if attraction to beauty was mostly subject to biology. (You know that biological structure doesn't change so fast in less than 200 years, right?) Also, you seem to underestimate how much humans are driven by their emotions and sense of loyalty to someone else. How would you explain the affection between people who fall in love with the disabled?
- DonaldFisk 9y ago
  I don't have any data on weight or body fat, but there's plenty of research into attractiveness of women with various waist-hip ratios and yes, it has dropped steadily from around 0.77 in 1500 to 0.68 in the last half-century. However, does even a WHR of 0.77 correspond to being fat? Source: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0123284 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....
sydd 9y ago
Not true. What you describe is the mindset of a 17 year old who never was in a relationship that lasted more than 2 weeks. Yeah, when I was that age I was only going for the looks too. Now, 15 years and 3 long term relationships later I am looking for something else: someone who I can trust, someone who is mature enough to consider marriage+children in a few years, someone who I can laugh with, someone who is mentally stable. Looks are now pretty low on my priority list, I've had enough sex that I know it's not everything.
- fizixer 9y ago
  I'd say you appear to be already over the idea of love and are more concerned with practical aspects of your current and future life. That leaves us with the institution of marriage. You invoke the practical concerns of trust, raising children, being able to laugh with someone, most of which are not tied to marriage and/or monogamy. Let me ask you, - If your government and/or your lawyer and your friends provide you enough "trust net" that you don't need to rely on trust of a marriage partner. - If you can have children through surrogate pregnancy, or if you are a woman, you wish to raise your child as a single mother (not to mention, the incoming future of genetically modified babies, so much so that after you've optimized your baby's features, there's hardly anything left in the DNA that relates to the parent). - If you can laugh with a good number of friends. Maybe one or two of those friends live next door so there's no chance of loneliness. Not to mention social media, entertainment industry, the list goes on. Do you really think the concept of marriage and monogamy remains as valid as it has been through history? The validity of a lot of what I'm saying is tied to, not in any arbitrary time in history, but the current state of technology and human progress we're witnessing right in front of our eyes. I mentioned genetically-modified-babies. Forget about that. I'm a big believer of medical progress and the need for healthful longevity. If, in the next few decades, a person is able to live the life of a healthy 25 year old for 200 or 300 years, would that person be even interested in having children? If artificial intelligence can take care of 90% of your trust, and entertainment needs, would you even feel unsafe? lonely? I believe we're headed towards drastic sociocultural change and the thinking of current populace, no matter how educated, is lagging behind substantially. The idea of marriage/monogamy/love is getting more and more optional. Not to say people will reject it outright. You have the right to choose love and marriage and monogamy. But it's becoming more of a choice than a practical necessity.
mkstowegnv 9y ago
Fortunately for those who are generally considered unattractive you are correct for most people most of the time but 'the race is not always won by the swift'. As I try to impress on particularly lonely young people - the best way to win over a stranger is to make them feel your fire, and that fire - that one of the things you are deeply passionate about - might be music it might be dancing it might be poetry it might be mountain climbing it mostly doesn't matter. Because in romance and sex enthusiasm trumps appearances and with time a person you like more and more starts to appear more and more attractive. If you are introverted it will take more time and more luck but it you can eventually share your excitement with someone there is a good chance they will find you exciting. And if you have imagination and persistence it can last a lifetime.
wu-ikkyu 9y ago
Define love
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
upvotinglurker 9y ago
>Note that I do not buy the silly notion that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and that 'I don't find that person attractive but I'm sure someone else will'. This is somewhat backed by data (e.g., the OKCupid survey), but I have developed this belief on my own. Humans of all races have a built-in instinct to find some visuals more appealing and attractive than others. It is sad but true. To take it to an extreme, if we find some visuals disgusting (e.g., spilled guts, slimy things) we don't all of a sudden go "I'm disgusted by slimy spilled guts of animals, but that's just me, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have the exact opposite reaction, that they love to look at slimy spilled guts". Physical attractiveness standards are nowhere near as specifically biologically determined as the reaction to "slimy spilled guts." Even just looking at western Europe-derived cultures, the "beautiful female nudes" of art from just a couple of hundred years ago are much heavier and less muscular than those of today. And "I don't find that person attractive but I'm sure someone else will" clearly can apply for cases like hair color preference. I believe there has been research showing more universal preferences for, for example, bilateral symmetry - but the specifics vary by culture and individual.
jansho 9y ago
Biological imperfection? Genetic defect? Bit harsh, no? You've painted love in this way, and it may be true for the majority of us. OK. But there will always be exceptions in a million other forms. I know ugly people who are utterly charming, either sweet or swaggery and others fall for them all the time. I also know beautiful people who are foul-mannered, and their relationships never last. And then all the others in between these two extremes. The good-looking one who had stinky pits like the rest of us after an all-nighter. The average-looking one with a wicked sense of humour, only after 3 conversations though. The dummy-looking one who actually has a strength so niche it's effing admirable. The chatterbox, the joker, the quietly brilliant ... on and on it goes. Oh and let's not forget the time factor; personalities change, experience builds up et cetra. See, that's how you get over this "biological defect." First impressions may be Tinder-like, but we (life?) are so much more sophisticated than that. No idea what social individualism is but the way I see is this: Nurture yourself to be the person you think you are, and open yourself to interactions. Invest in the relationships once you get them. Be empathical, even if you 'lose'. If everyone does this, we're on track to a happier, more loving society.
roceasta 9y ago
Bear in mind that everybody loves something, even if it's just beer, or ice cream, or criticizing other people. 'Love' means giving something full attention (metaphorically speaking, to "open your heart fully" to that something). Btw, this Roald Dahl extract from 'The Twits' is relevant to visual attraction: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e8/54/ef/e854efd3664b4a630a85335cdfb7ee7a.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e8/54/ef/e854...

debaserab2 9y ago

> I hope most of you would agree that at least 70%-90% of being in love has something to do with the appearance of your person-of-interest (most of it visual). No matter how you cut it, no matter how much of an intellectual you are and how much you prefer to connect deeply with a person, in the end, given two individuals, you fall in love with the one that is more visually attractive No, I don't agree with that even a little bit based on my own experience and that of many of my friends. This comment reads like someone trying to explain to themselves why they are single.

fizixer 9y ago
Thought experiment: Imagine you are not dependent on your current partner in any way. You are financially stable (let's say you a multi-millionaire). Either you don't have kids or if you do, somehow they're not dependent on you (or something). Now think of your favorite media personalities that you have a crush on, and imagine one of them meets you in person and takes an elevated level of interest in you. If you don't have any celebrity crushes and that there is no one in the world you find more attractive than your current partner, I give up. If there is, would you be tempted to cheat? If not, I give up. If yes, I rest my case.
- projektir 9y ago
  Hmm. I'm sympathetic to your overall perspective (that love may not be the universal blessing as it is often perceived) but this is rather unconvincing. You should not confuse how most people are, or how you perceive most people to be, and how you perceive yourself to currently be, with how you or other people could be. I tend to think that if you're still interested in media personalities, people who you don't, at the end of the day, know much about, then you can't really hold high ground on romantic ideas. There are, of course, potentially appropriate and awesome people among media personalities, but there are also plenty of awesome people who are not media personalities, but the reality is, you don't know any of those people, and it's always easy to imagine that a person you know very little about is much better than what you currently have. This is not something you want to trust. Which is too bad, because I think the discussion on what relationships mean should be opened up more, and I think people can develop much more complex preferences than "attractive, popular, wealthy", they just often think that their instincts cannot be overpowered despite that being the human experience in a nutshell.
- Mahn 9y ago
  Would I have consensual sex with an attractive celebrity if they took an interest in me? Sure. Would I fall in love with an attractive celebrity if they took an interest in me? Well, no, not automatically anyway, I would have to get to know this person first and see how I feel about spending time and do things together. I'd definitely not dump a person I've known and loved for years over a fling with an attractive celebrity that I don't really know on a personal level. You keep saying that sexual attraction and love are the same thing, but they are not.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tomgp 9y ago

The most hacker-news comment ever

RangerScience 9y ago

I appreciate you sharing, but you need to realize that your own, internal experience is guaranteed to be unique to you. This is why studies have to be done; otherwise, we all go off our non-generalizable* personal experiences. * I mean, some part of it is generalizable, but which parts and how? > beauty is in the eye of the beholder I have (and am actually currently) feeling my brain changing its opinions on human aesthetics and forms. This is far from the first time. It is actually a distinct feeling that I quite enjoy, and it's very different from the "acquired taste" feeling from, say, whiskeys. In other words, although I have no idea how many people share this experience, I have a direct, personal experience of beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

sobani 9y ago
I have also noticed this. When I was younger, I had 0-1 crushes at any time. But today I find beauty in a lot of different people. Maybe it's maturity, maybe it's the 'clock' in my male brain urging me to find someone, anyone, but like you I do enjoy this change. Maybe one day when I've fully progressed from the binary rating of beauty to the continuous rating I will continue on to the unary rating: everyone is equally beautiful in their own way.
- RangerScience 9y ago
  > 0-1 crushes at any time It's only this year or so that I've got 1+ (1-3, I think) proper crushes at the same time. Part of it is the "unbundling of intimacy" - if I like you one way, I don't need to like you ALL of the other ways, or be bothered that I might like someone else in more ways / more strongly.

Mahn 9y ago

Respectfully, your argument doesn't hold water because it doesn't look like you understand what being/falling in love is. Sexual attraction is 70%-90% visual appearances and mostly biological, but falling in love is not about sexual urges, it's about happiness. We fall in love with the person that brings happiness and joy to our life by merely spending time together, not necessarily the one we want to ram our genitals into. Most people pursue partners based on sexual urges, sure. But falling in love is a whole other game, and they don't go hand in hand.

fizixer 9y ago
> We fall in love with the person that brings happiness and joy to our life by merely spending time together. If you need to spend time with someone in order to have happiness and joy in your life, you have a problem to solve before you even think about love and dating.
- cousin_it 9y ago
  Many people do have a need to be loved, you can't argue it away.
  - fizixer 9y ago
    Most people have plenty of issues growing up, like low self-esteem, need for validation, etc. A combination of training, therapy, meditation, sense-of-purpose, etc can work wonders.
    - cousin_it 9y ago
      One such issue is nihilism, the kind you're showing here. Growing out of it often makes people happier, unlike growing out of love.
    - 3131s 9y ago
      How about you worry about yourself and stop diagnosing people that choose to be with another person?

alttab 9y ago

This is almost nihilistic.

ambicapter 9y ago
Almost?

gfodor 9y ago

Surely you have some irrational beliefs that make you happy and make your life worth living. For example, since you got up this morning, it's evident that you feel living is worthwhile when in fact all evidence points to the fact that death is final and life is meaningless. It seems pretty silly for you to listen to your lizard brain telling you to try to stay alive each day. You get hungry and your brain tells you to eat, and lo and behold you eat food and survive. What a coincidence! Anything other than pure nihilism is a conservative notion should be marginalized. See what I did there? Those who live glass houses should not throw stones.

AnimalMuppet 9y ago

> I hope most of you would agree that at least 70%-90% of being in love has something to do with the appearance of your person-of-interest (most of it visual). Absolutely not. It's her heart and mind that I fell in love with.

bhnmmhmd 9y ago

Actually, men used to like it when women were fat about two centuries ago. Nowadays, it's completely reverse: super-models are all slim. This wouldn't happen if attraction to beauty was mostly subject to biology. (You know that biological structure doesn't change so fast in less than 200 years, right?) Also, you seem to underestimate how much humans are driven by their emotions and sense of loyalty to someone else. How would you explain the affection between people who fall in love with the disabled?

DonaldFisk 9y ago
I don't have any data on weight or body fat, but there's plenty of research into attractiveness of women with various waist-hip ratios and yes, it has dropped steadily from around 0.77 in 1500 to 0.68 in the last half-century. However, does even a WHR of 0.77 correspond to being fat? Source: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0123284 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....

sydd 9y ago

Not true. What you describe is the mindset of a 17 year old who never was in a relationship that lasted more than 2 weeks. Yeah, when I was that age I was only going for the looks too. Now, 15 years and 3 long term relationships later I am looking for something else: someone who I can trust, someone who is mature enough to consider marriage+children in a few years, someone who I can laugh with, someone who is mentally stable. Looks are now pretty low on my priority list, I've had enough sex that I know it's not everything.

fizixer 9y ago
I'd say you appear to be already over the idea of love and are more concerned with practical aspects of your current and future life. That leaves us with the institution of marriage. You invoke the practical concerns of trust, raising children, being able to laugh with someone, most of which are not tied to marriage and/or monogamy. Let me ask you, - If your government and/or your lawyer and your friends provide you enough "trust net" that you don't need to rely on trust of a marriage partner. - If you can have children through surrogate pregnancy, or if you are a woman, you wish to raise your child as a single mother (not to mention, the incoming future of genetically modified babies, so much so that after you've optimized your baby's features, there's hardly anything left in the DNA that relates to the parent). - If you can laugh with a good number of friends. Maybe one or two of those friends live next door so there's no chance of loneliness. Not to mention social media, entertainment industry, the list goes on. Do you really think the concept of marriage and monogamy remains as valid as it has been through history? The validity of a lot of what I'm saying is tied to, not in any arbitrary time in history, but the current state of technology and human progress we're witnessing right in front of our eyes. I mentioned genetically-modified-babies. Forget about that. I'm a big believer of medical progress and the need for healthful longevity. If, in the next few decades, a person is able to live the life of a healthy 25 year old for 200 or 300 years, would that person be even interested in having children? If artificial intelligence can take care of 90% of your trust, and entertainment needs, would you even feel unsafe? lonely? I believe we're headed towards drastic sociocultural change and the thinking of current populace, no matter how educated, is lagging behind substantially. The idea of marriage/monogamy/love is getting more and more optional. Not to say people will reject it outright. You have the right to choose love and marriage and monogamy. But it's becoming more of a choice than a practical necessity.

mkstowegnv 9y ago

Fortunately for those who are generally considered unattractive you are correct for most people most of the time but 'the race is not always won by the swift'. As I try to impress on particularly lonely young people - the best way to win over a stranger is to make them feel your fire, and that fire - that one of the things you are deeply passionate about - might be music it might be dancing it might be poetry it might be mountain climbing it mostly doesn't matter. Because in romance and sex enthusiasm trumps appearances and with time a person you like more and more starts to appear more and more attractive. If you are introverted it will take more time and more luck but it you can eventually share your excitement with someone there is a good chance they will find you exciting. And if you have imagination and persistence it can last a lifetime.

wu-ikkyu 9y ago

Define love

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

upvotinglurker 9y ago

>Note that I do not buy the silly notion that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and that 'I don't find that person attractive but I'm sure someone else will'. This is somewhat backed by data (e.g., the OKCupid survey), but I have developed this belief on my own. Humans of all races have a built-in instinct to find some visuals more appealing and attractive than others. It is sad but true. To take it to an extreme, if we find some visuals disgusting (e.g., spilled guts, slimy things) we don't all of a sudden go "I'm disgusted by slimy spilled guts of animals, but that's just me, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have the exact opposite reaction, that they love to look at slimy spilled guts". Physical attractiveness standards are nowhere near as specifically biologically determined as the reaction to "slimy spilled guts." Even just looking at western Europe-derived cultures, the "beautiful female nudes" of art from just a couple of hundred years ago are much heavier and less muscular than those of today. And "I don't find that person attractive but I'm sure someone else will" clearly can apply for cases like hair color preference. I believe there has been research showing more universal preferences for, for example, bilateral symmetry - but the specifics vary by culture and individual.

jansho 9y ago

Biological imperfection? Genetic defect? Bit harsh, no? You've painted love in this way, and it may be true for the majority of us. OK. But there will always be exceptions in a million other forms. I know ugly people who are utterly charming, either sweet or swaggery and others fall for them all the time. I also know beautiful people who are foul-mannered, and their relationships never last. And then all the others in between these two extremes. The good-looking one who had stinky pits like the rest of us after an all-nighter. The average-looking one with a wicked sense of humour, only after 3 conversations though. The dummy-looking one who actually has a strength so niche it's effing admirable. The chatterbox, the joker, the quietly brilliant ... on and on it goes. Oh and let's not forget the time factor; personalities change, experience builds up et cetra. See, that's how you get over this "biological defect." First impressions may be Tinder-like, but we (life?) are so much more sophisticated than that. No idea what social individualism is but the way I see is this: Nurture yourself to be the person you think you are, and open yourself to interactions. Invest in the relationships once you get them. Be empathical, even if you 'lose'. If everyone does this, we're on track to a happier, more loving society.

roceasta 9y ago

Bear in mind that everybody loves something, even if it's just beer, or ice cream, or criticizing other people. 'Love' means giving something full attention (metaphorically speaking, to "open your heart fully" to that something). Btw, this Roald Dahl extract from 'The Twits' is relevant to visual attraction: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e8/54/ef/e854efd3664b4a630a85335cdfb7ee7a.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e8/54/ef/e854...