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> They will be hundreds of millions of miles behind in terms of autonomy, and thousands of charging stations behind Can charging stations not be standardized,

> They will be hundreds of millions of miles behind in terms of autonomy, and thousands of charging stations behind Can charging stations not be standardized, like gas stations?

awj 9y ago
They probably will be, long term. Short term either everyone will support the market leader's charger, or the market leader will patent the charger and charging stations will become pluggable/universal. I can see no reality in which make-exclusive charging stations are viable.
brudgers 9y ago
In theory, perhaps. The real-estate economics of charging stations versus gas stations seem to work against a similar model. In part because: 1. The fastest turn around times for charging are about 10x the fastest turn around times for fossil fuels. This presents a queuing problem limited by real estate. 2. The typical fossil fuel refilling time allows high turnover in supplemental facilities such as a Quickie Mart (or in many cases the fuel pumps are auxiliary to retail sales as the primary business). The recharge time of an electric vehicle does not support as high a turnover. 3. Fossil fuels allow better arbitrage for business operators. Cheap gasoline can sit onsite or in transit in tanks to be sold later at a higher price. Electricity prices are typically set by a single local provider and electricity cannot be stored. The real-estate is the real problem. The Tesla charging station near me is on the parking lot perimeter of a shopping mall. It's almost certainly cheap, but not exactly convenient to either the nearest interstate (ten minutes in traffic) nor the stores in the Mall (1/4 mile each way across a sea of asphalt and it's not really a shopping mall anyone would pull of the interstate for).
- JVIDEL 9y ago
  Speaking of real estate the EV might actually save a lot of malls since they could convert their parking lots to charging stations and get people to walk around and buy things while they wait
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    In places outside of the valley, it's not uncommon to see traditional vehicles taking up electric spots if it's a convenient parking spot.
    - WorldMaker 9y ago
      It's also not uncommon to see those towed and the language "Parking while charging ONLY" to appear, too. It is a solvable social problem.
      - bdcravens 9y ago
        Of course that's an option. I've never once seen a tow truck anywhere near a charging station, or that kind of verbiage. It says "reserved for EV", but it seems as strongly enforced as the parking spots reserved at retailers for online pickup.
  - brudgers 9y ago
    That might work for Tesla because it targets the leisure class...or at least people with plenty of disposable income. That's not everyone. In the case of the charging stations near me, right now it is 34C and 80% humidity and sunny and the doors are ~0.4 km across a shadeless asphalt parking lot. You could shop for a fresh shirt because you'll want one by the time you reach the air conditioning. Maybe get two because you'll want another when you get back to your car that's been sitting in the sun for an hour or so. But at least it's not currently raining. Shopping at the mall is great if I don't have to be anywhere any time soon and I've got some money to spend on things I probably don't really need. But having to do so every two hundred miles smells more of nuisance than of pleasure.
    - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
      > your car that's been sitting in the sun for an hour or so. Just an FYI, you can set a Tesla to keep the interior of the car cool even when you're not in it. I've seen pictures of people leaving notes on their windows telling people not to smash the window to save the dog left inside because the A/C is still running. And if you're going to be at your destination for several hours, you can still remotely turn the A/C on in preparation for leaving.

> They will be hundreds of millions of miles behind in terms of autonomy, and thousands of charging stations behind Can charging stations not be standardized, like gas stations?

awj 9y ago

They probably will be, long term. Short term either everyone will support the market leader's charger, or the market leader will patent the charger and charging stations will become pluggable/universal. I can see no reality in which make-exclusive charging stations are viable.

brudgers 9y ago

In theory, perhaps. The real-estate economics of charging stations versus gas stations seem to work against a similar model. In part because: 1. The fastest turn around times for charging are about 10x the fastest turn around times for fossil fuels. This presents a queuing problem limited by real estate. 2. The typical fossil fuel refilling time allows high turnover in supplemental facilities such as a Quickie Mart (or in many cases the fuel pumps are auxiliary to retail sales as the primary business). The recharge time of an electric vehicle does not support as high a turnover. 3. Fossil fuels allow better arbitrage for business operators. Cheap gasoline can sit onsite or in transit in tanks to be sold later at a higher price. Electricity prices are typically set by a single local provider and electricity cannot be stored. The real-estate is the real problem. The Tesla charging station near me is on the parking lot perimeter of a shopping mall. It's almost certainly cheap, but not exactly convenient to either the nearest interstate (ten minutes in traffic) nor the stores in the Mall (1/4 mile each way across a sea of asphalt and it's not really a shopping mall anyone would pull of the interstate for).

JVIDEL 9y ago
Speaking of real estate the EV might actually save a lot of malls since they could convert their parking lots to charging stations and get people to walk around and buy things while they wait
- bdcravens 9y ago
  In places outside of the valley, it's not uncommon to see traditional vehicles taking up electric spots if it's a convenient parking spot.
  - WorldMaker 9y ago
    It's also not uncommon to see those towed and the language "Parking while charging ONLY" to appear, too. It is a solvable social problem.
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      Of course that's an option. I've never once seen a tow truck anywhere near a charging station, or that kind of verbiage. It says "reserved for EV", but it seems as strongly enforced as the parking spots reserved at retailers for online pickup.
- brudgers 9y ago
  That might work for Tesla because it targets the leisure class...or at least people with plenty of disposable income. That's not everyone. In the case of the charging stations near me, right now it is 34C and 80% humidity and sunny and the doors are ~0.4 km across a shadeless asphalt parking lot. You could shop for a fresh shirt because you'll want one by the time you reach the air conditioning. Maybe get two because you'll want another when you get back to your car that's been sitting in the sun for an hour or so. But at least it's not currently raining. Shopping at the mall is great if I don't have to be anywhere any time soon and I've got some money to spend on things I probably don't really need. But having to do so every two hundred miles smells more of nuisance than of pleasure.
  - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
    > your car that's been sitting in the sun for an hour or so. Just an FYI, you can set a Tesla to keep the interior of the car cool even when you're not in it. I've seen pictures of people leaving notes on their windows telling people not to smash the window to save the dog left inside because the A/C is still running. And if you're going to be at your destination for several hours, you can still remotely turn the A/C on in preparation for leaving.