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Highly related: https://x.company/makani/ https://x.company/makani/ founded by Don Montague, one of the Kiteboarding pioneers - likely the first one to create s

Highly related: https://x.company/makani/ https://x.company/makani/ founded by Don Montague, one of the Kiteboarding pioneers - likely the first one to create software to design kites and windsurf sails.

seltzered_ 9y ago
They mention Makani and others in the "competitive landscape" section of their site.
- jpm_sd 9y ago
  What they don't mention is that Makani has thoroughly proven that the concept is not viable. The wing-on-a-string is too unstable and too expensive to compete with plain old wind turbines. Edit: removed unsourced claim about the future.
  - Grustaf 9y ago
    In what sense have they proven this?
    - sjburt 9y ago
      It's been 11 years and they are still barely flying a not-full-size prototype.
      - drewm1980 9y ago
        That is not a long time for something like this.
      - drewm1980 9y ago
        That is not a long time for something like this.
    - jpm_sd 9y ago
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/alphabet-s-green-energy-ambitions-hit-turbulence https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/alphabet-...
  - beambot 9y ago
    Makani is now part of GoogleX. I hadn't heard of their pivot. Have a source?
  - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
    For infrastructural power generation sure. But for military use, off grid living, post apocalyptic scenarios, etc. it has merit.
  - wastra 9y ago
    Please also remove the unsourced (and untrue) claim about the present, too! I wrote a thesis ten years ago which examined the engineering and economics of a more simple kite/glider pair system. Aerodynamically, it can be stable and self-correcting, which I modelled and prototyped, but this may not be an optimal design and launching is hard due to lower (and different direction) ground wind and boundary layer issues. The drone-like addition adds control complexity, but appears to ease take-off and can probably reduce strain in flight and improve efficiency, despite the aerodynamic cost. Tower wind turbines have enormous costs and engineering trade-offs: the generator is in the nacelle up high, adding structural cost to the tower, which, at 150m+ nowadays, is a big deal; not to mention the rotors which span the area of a sports stadium. This doesn't scale, whereas kites do, because the tower/blade height/length cost is gone, the generator sits on the ground, and can be bigger (easy access, cheaper, heavier magnets, among other benefits). Maintenance (and finance of turbine project bearing this in mind) is huge. Servicing an offshore turbine is weather limited and expensive even if you can get there. For kites, just reel them in by pulling more power off the generator to wind in the kites. If they are offshore, then sail the boat (?autonomously) back to a harbor. The list goes on and on, and amazing possibilities open up with a moment's thought. Agreed with responder that it is early days for the technology, but I expect strong progress through up learning curve from this early stage. Good luck Makani!
greeneggs 9y ago
New Yorker profile of Makani, from 2013: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/05/20/inherit-the-wind http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/05/20/inherit-the-win...
cmansley 9y ago
https://youtu.be/An8vtD1FDqs https://youtu.be/An8vtD1FDqs

seltzered_ 9y ago

They mention Makani and others in the "competitive landscape" section of their site.

jpm_sd 9y ago
What they don't mention is that Makani has thoroughly proven that the concept is not viable. The wing-on-a-string is too unstable and too expensive to compete with plain old wind turbines. Edit: removed unsourced claim about the future.
- Grustaf 9y ago
  In what sense have they proven this?
  - sjburt 9y ago
    It's been 11 years and they are still barely flying a not-full-size prototype.
    - drewm1980 9y ago
      That is not a long time for something like this.
    - drewm1980 9y ago
      That is not a long time for something like this.
  - jpm_sd 9y ago
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/alphabet-s-green-energy-ambitions-hit-turbulence https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/alphabet-...
- beambot 9y ago
  Makani is now part of GoogleX. I hadn't heard of their pivot. Have a source?
- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  For infrastructural power generation sure. But for military use, off grid living, post apocalyptic scenarios, etc. it has merit.
- wastra 9y ago
  Please also remove the unsourced (and untrue) claim about the present, too! I wrote a thesis ten years ago which examined the engineering and economics of a more simple kite/glider pair system. Aerodynamically, it can be stable and self-correcting, which I modelled and prototyped, but this may not be an optimal design and launching is hard due to lower (and different direction) ground wind and boundary layer issues. The drone-like addition adds control complexity, but appears to ease take-off and can probably reduce strain in flight and improve efficiency, despite the aerodynamic cost. Tower wind turbines have enormous costs and engineering trade-offs: the generator is in the nacelle up high, adding structural cost to the tower, which, at 150m+ nowadays, is a big deal; not to mention the rotors which span the area of a sports stadium. This doesn't scale, whereas kites do, because the tower/blade height/length cost is gone, the generator sits on the ground, and can be bigger (easy access, cheaper, heavier magnets, among other benefits). Maintenance (and finance of turbine project bearing this in mind) is huge. Servicing an offshore turbine is weather limited and expensive even if you can get there. For kites, just reel them in by pulling more power off the generator to wind in the kites. If they are offshore, then sail the boat (?autonomously) back to a harbor. The list goes on and on, and amazing possibilities open up with a moment's thought. Agreed with responder that it is early days for the technology, but I expect strong progress through up learning curve from this early stage. Good luck Makani!

greeneggs 9y ago

New Yorker profile of Makani, from 2013: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/05/20/inherit-the-wind http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/05/20/inherit-the-win...

cmansley 9y ago

https://youtu.be/An8vtD1FDqs https://youtu.be/An8vtD1FDqs