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What I don't understand is with such capabilities, why weren't Michelle carters texts flagged? Or the heather Mack texts/fb messages. Or the texts revolving aro

What I don't understand is with such capabilities, why weren't Michelle carters texts flagged? Or the heather Mack texts/fb messages. Or the texts revolving around the death of Tim piazza at penn state? If the capability to save these people was there, why wasn't it exercised?

Chardok 9y ago
He states it in the video: they are incredibly overwhelmed with data coming in and are just using "old search methods" such as word search that he deems ineffective. My understanding is that this bulk data gathering is not as much as preventing attacks but further securing of power for the strange amalgamation that we would call the federal government.
- zipppy 9y ago
  Having left his job more than 15 years ago, is there any chance that he's simply not aware of the actual methods they're using? I know in other fields the ability to do concept searching (via LSI and other techniques), rather than simple text based searching, has been in use for many years. His example/problem of a search for "bomb" bringing up noise (such as an email talking about a QB throwing a 'bomb' pass) should have long ago been solved.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Even if they cared, they wouldn't risk burning a source/method over a couple of teenagers potentially harming themselves or each other. This apparatus isn't about helping police, it's about state control, ostensibly of things like immigration and terrorism, but realistically as you say it's pure power.
- londons_explore 9y ago
  That was years ago - By now, I'm sure they run it all through deep networks and ought to easily be able to "search by thought" - for example, "find all people who have considered or ever talked about blowing up something in a non sarcastic way". Neural networks, with enough training data (which the NSA surely possesses), and enough compute power (which the NSA also possesses), could easily do this.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  It's odd reading about this on HN.. Paul Graham sprading bayesian flagging long ago. One thing though... money isn't everything; I can imagine NSA employees being blindsighted by their own resources and keep using a hammer to kill a fly.
madez 9y ago
If it would reveal secret capabilities (or illegal procedure), the NSA does not reveal their information.
javajosh 9y ago
Occam's razor says it's because the capability to gather far exceeds the NSA's ability to analyze. The data they collect is probably run through basic automated analysis (probably keywords, sentiment, and social network analysis, possibly some attempt to correlate to interesting real-world activity like purchase of large amounts of fertilizer, etc). But mostly the cache is used for retroactive surveillance to catch colluders after an event. The data would also be useful for local law enforcement (a kind of "super tap"), and certainly they have the eyes (if not the skill) to analyze the data, but that's a political hot potato. (And thank God - there are plenty of local police chiefs just itching to send the SWAT team in to a family home based on NSA "cyber"). Note that one of the more useful and interesting uses for this data would be political demographic analysis more comprehensive than anything available legitimately. It could also be used to target leakers, especially if you could use devices to put 3rd parties in the same room. E.g. my phone hears or sees you and your friend together, even if you don't have phones.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  >But mostly the cache is used for retroactive surveillance to catch colluders after an event. The bar for collusion is really low. Look at what happened to the pot dealer for the guys that bombed the Boston marathon. The odds of any one transaction coming back to get you are practically and almost literally zero but when something bad happens it doesn't happen in a vacuum. The bank robbers have to buy their getaway car from someone.
willstrafach 9y ago
Their analysts cannot query on US Person Information, so unless this was discussed in foreign-to-foreign communications, flagging would not be possible.

Chardok 9y ago

He states it in the video: they are incredibly overwhelmed with data coming in and are just using "old search methods" such as word search that he deems ineffective. My understanding is that this bulk data gathering is not as much as preventing attacks but further securing of power for the strange amalgamation that we would call the federal government.

zipppy 9y ago
Having left his job more than 15 years ago, is there any chance that he's simply not aware of the actual methods they're using? I know in other fields the ability to do concept searching (via LSI and other techniques), rather than simple text based searching, has been in use for many years. His example/problem of a search for "bomb" bringing up noise (such as an email talking about a QB throwing a 'bomb' pass) should have long ago been solved.
QAPereo 9y ago
Even if they cared, they wouldn't risk burning a source/method over a couple of teenagers potentially harming themselves or each other. This apparatus isn't about helping police, it's about state control, ostensibly of things like immigration and terrorism, but realistically as you say it's pure power.
londons_explore 9y ago
That was years ago - By now, I'm sure they run it all through deep networks and ought to easily be able to "search by thought" - for example, "find all people who have considered or ever talked about blowing up something in a non sarcastic way". Neural networks, with enough training data (which the NSA surely possesses), and enough compute power (which the NSA also possesses), could easily do this.
agumonkey 9y ago
It's odd reading about this on HN.. Paul Graham sprading bayesian flagging long ago. One thing though... money isn't everything; I can imagine NSA employees being blindsighted by their own resources and keep using a hammer to kill a fly.

madez 9y ago

If it would reveal secret capabilities (or illegal procedure), the NSA does not reveal their information.

javajosh 9y ago

Occam's razor says it's because the capability to gather far exceeds the NSA's ability to analyze. The data they collect is probably run through basic automated analysis (probably keywords, sentiment, and social network analysis, possibly some attempt to correlate to interesting real-world activity like purchase of large amounts of fertilizer, etc). But mostly the cache is used for retroactive surveillance to catch colluders after an event. The data would also be useful for local law enforcement (a kind of "super tap"), and certainly they have the eyes (if not the skill) to analyze the data, but that's a political hot potato. (And thank God - there are plenty of local police chiefs just itching to send the SWAT team in to a family home based on NSA "cyber"). Note that one of the more useful and interesting uses for this data would be political demographic analysis more comprehensive than anything available legitimately. It could also be used to target leakers, especially if you could use devices to put 3rd parties in the same room. E.g. my phone hears or sees you and your friend together, even if you don't have phones.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
>But mostly the cache is used for retroactive surveillance to catch colluders after an event. The bar for collusion is really low. Look at what happened to the pot dealer for the guys that bombed the Boston marathon. The odds of any one transaction coming back to get you are practically and almost literally zero but when something bad happens it doesn't happen in a vacuum. The bank robbers have to buy their getaway car from someone.

willstrafach 9y ago

Their analysts cannot query on US Person Information, so unless this was discussed in foreign-to-foreign communications, flagging would not be possible.