3 ms·

Does this really need explaining? He lists certain traits he thinks are distinct to men and women. Clearly, "ability to handle stress" is important for every

Does this really need explaining? He lists certain traits he thinks are distinct to men and women. Clearly, "ability to handle stress" is important for every job. Measuring someone's stress and perceiving your own stress are highly subjective, as is the definition of success. The manifesto author acts like these things are all objectively observable, but they're not. If you want a data-based analysis on which we can all probably agree, look at the success of Google. They've maintained these values over the years with the same founders and have found quite a bit of success.

pacala 9y ago
> ability to handle stress gender difference https://www.google.com/search?q=ability+to+handle+stress+gender+difference https://www.google.com/search?q=ability+to+handle+stress+gen... First result: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2010/gender-stress.aspx http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2010/gender-st... First paragraph: > Men and women* report different reactions to stress, both physically and mentally. They attempt to manage stress in very different ways and also perceive their ability to do so — and the things that stand in their way — in markedly different ways. Findings suggest that while women are more likely to report physical symptoms associated with stress, they are doing a better job connecting with others in their lives and, at times, these connections are important to their stress management strategies. Note that the Gizmodo publication removed data and references from the text, https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320/amp https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-di... > The text of the post is reproduced in full below, with some minor formatting modifications. Two charts and several hyperlinks are also omitted. Disclaimer: I have no idea how this facet affects one's capacity of performing in a tech role, if at all.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  I'm not sure what you're rebutting. The APA page doesn't support any claim that men or women are better at handling stress. It just says they handle it differently. > Disclaimer: I have no idea how this facet affects one's capacity of performing in a tech role. Yeah. On the other hand, the manifesto author suggests that "stress tolerance" is gender based, and may affect your capacity to succeed in tech: "differences may explain why we don't see equal representation of women in tech" It seems clear to me that the manifesto author "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with".
  - Whooshwhoosh 9y ago
    > It seems clear to me that the manifesto author "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with". Could you quote the part of the manifesto that says so / gave this impression. I totally understand the offensiveness and stupidity of such a belief -I just fail to see how the author argues for it given that he explicitly states the opposite > Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions. As far as I can see the author is arguing average aptitudes in populations and consequent percentual representation of men and women not being 50/50. Not aptititudes of individuals. As the author also argues for actions that in their eyes increases the attractiveness of tech jobs to women they seem to think of the women that work with them as perfectly capable. I appreciate any help in understanding this point of view. It just feels like we read different manifestos
    - unityByFreedom 9y ago
      >> It seems clear to me that the manifesto author "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with". > Could you quote the part of the manifesto that says so / gave this impression. I did. The parts in quotes above are directly from the manifesto. He lists differences between sexes and claims one gender has "lower stress tolerance". That's a gross generalization that doesn't account for a lot of perception factors which I outlined in an above comment. He also prefaces that section by saying "these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech". > As far as I can see the author is arguing average aptitudes in populations and consequent percentual representation of men and women not being 50/50. Not aptititudes of individuals The author makes the claim that one sex's ineptitude in a modern role is, on average, rooted in biology. That's not supported by science.
      - Whooshwhoosh 9y ago
        Thanks for clarifying. Is it fair to say that you disagree with the author on whether the biological differences exist (and if they do the size of their effect on representation), not with the logical merit of the argument (group aptitude and preference affect representation)? I can understand that position and think we can call it a day as i don't feel qualified to argue the size of the effect. It could very well be just 1%, i.e. 49/51. If not > "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with" > The author makes the claim that one sex's ineptitude in a modern role is, on average, rooted in biology. That's not supported by science. This does not follow from your argument. Your argument only supports that the author questions the ability of every women who fails to get a job in the field / that modern role. If it is proven that biological differences do not significantly impact modern role preference and capability, you and the author agree that representation should be 50/50. He never specifies how much of an influence he believes biological differences to have, just that there could be some. I also disagree with your assertion that the author questions any individual womens aptitude based on her gender. He is talking averages across the general population, not applicants after all.

pacala 9y ago

> ability to handle stress gender difference https://www.google.com/search?q=ability+to+handle+stress+gender+difference https://www.google.com/search?q=ability+to+handle+stress+gen... First result: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2010/gender-stress.aspx http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2010/gender-st... First paragraph: > Men and women* report different reactions to stress, both physically and mentally. They attempt to manage stress in very different ways and also perceive their ability to do so — and the things that stand in their way — in markedly different ways. Findings suggest that while women are more likely to report physical symptoms associated with stress, they are doing a better job connecting with others in their lives and, at times, these connections are important to their stress management strategies. Note that the Gizmodo publication removed data and references from the text, https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320/amp https://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-di... > The text of the post is reproduced in full below, with some minor formatting modifications. Two charts and several hyperlinks are also omitted. Disclaimer: I have no idea how this facet affects one's capacity of performing in a tech role, if at all.

unityByFreedom 9y ago
I'm not sure what you're rebutting. The APA page doesn't support any claim that men or women are better at handling stress. It just says they handle it differently. > Disclaimer: I have no idea how this facet affects one's capacity of performing in a tech role. Yeah. On the other hand, the manifesto author suggests that "stress tolerance" is gender based, and may affect your capacity to succeed in tech: "differences may explain why we don't see equal representation of women in tech" It seems clear to me that the manifesto author "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with".
- Whooshwhoosh 9y ago
  > It seems clear to me that the manifesto author "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with". Could you quote the part of the manifesto that says so / gave this impression. I totally understand the offensiveness and stupidity of such a belief -I just fail to see how the author argues for it given that he explicitly states the opposite > Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions. As far as I can see the author is arguing average aptitudes in populations and consequent percentual representation of men and women not being 50/50. Not aptititudes of individuals. As the author also argues for actions that in their eyes increases the attractiveness of tech jobs to women they seem to think of the women that work with them as perfectly capable. I appreciate any help in understanding this point of view. It just feels like we read different manifestos
  - unityByFreedom 9y ago
    >> It seems clear to me that the manifesto author "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with". > Could you quote the part of the manifesto that says so / gave this impression. I did. The parts in quotes above are directly from the manifesto. He lists differences between sexes and claims one gender has "lower stress tolerance". That's a gross generalization that doesn't account for a lot of perception factors which I outlined in an above comment. He also prefaces that section by saying "these differences may explain why we don’t see equal representation of women in tech". > As far as I can see the author is arguing average aptitudes in populations and consequent percentual representation of men and women not being 50/50. Not aptititudes of individuals The author makes the claim that one sex's ineptitude in a modern role is, on average, rooted in biology. That's not supported by science.
    - Whooshwhoosh 9y ago
      Thanks for clarifying. Is it fair to say that you disagree with the author on whether the biological differences exist (and if they do the size of their effect on representation), not with the logical merit of the argument (group aptitude and preference affect representation)? I can understand that position and think we can call it a day as i don't feel qualified to argue the size of the effect. It could very well be just 1%, i.e. 49/51. If not > "raises into question the fundamental capability of every woman he works with" > The author makes the claim that one sex's ineptitude in a modern role is, on average, rooted in biology. That's not supported by science. This does not follow from your argument. Your argument only supports that the author questions the ability of every women who fails to get a job in the field / that modern role. If it is proven that biological differences do not significantly impact modern role preference and capability, you and the author agree that representation should be 50/50. He never specifies how much of an influence he believes biological differences to have, just that there could be some. I also disagree with your assertion that the author questions any individual womens aptitude based on her gender. He is talking averages across the general population, not applicants after all.