3 ms·

>You can say that every sub-group tries to separate oneself from the so called masses Yes, but in different ways. Punk rockers want to shock, nouveaux riches w

>You can say that every sub-group tries to separate oneself from the so called masses Yes, but in different ways. Punk rockers want to shock, nouveaux riches want to impress. >This isn't that different from the middle class in Victorian England going crazy for upscale wool products at the time, and I'm pretty sure it you asked them they wouldn't say that they are immitating the wealthy either. Worsted wool is not upscale, the idea was that it _looked_ like silk. In any case it is pretty obvious that hipsters don't try to imitate the rich. Many of the things they do have nothing at all to do with money, fixed gear hubs, facial hair, obscure bands, tight jeans etc. Even for things that cost a little bit of money, like sour dough bread, artisinal tomatoes and leather saddles, that is not the point, and it's not that expensive - any middle class person can afford them. The point is that you _know_ these obscure bands, you _care_ about how your bread is made. You're not showing off your wealth, you're showing off your sophistication. But the main point is that most of the things that characterise hipsters they don't even have in common with the wealthy, and when they do I think the influence went the other way as often as not. > I never could find a "hipster" that managed to define what "longing for authenticity" actually means all in all it feels more like a slogan than a philosophy. It's simple, it's about buying things that have meaning, that were produced with more love and care than the average mass produced product.

dogma1138 9y ago
Worsted wool, especially damask fabrics of it were definitely upscale and expensive, and went way beyond imitating silk, many of the dresses you'll see of English royalty including most of those wore by queen Victoria were made out of wool not silk. >It's simple, it's about buying things that have meaning, that were produced with more love and care than the average mass produced product. Like what? virtually every "hipster" product is the same mass produced consumer "garbage" with an added Apple commercial twist to it. The clothes are made in the same place, the coffee is rebranded, your special mustache oil is made by some pharmaceutical company in the philippines and the list goes on and on. You were effectively sold not a product but the idea or feeling behind the product, there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are honest about what you are buying. The few that aren't are effectively "luxury" brands, food items that used to be the staple hold of high end restaurants and personal chefs are now sold as "artisan foods" mostly since now there are people who will pay 150$ for some wassabi or 40$ for nice large salt crystals. Beyond that you have some silly brands that somehow convinced you that buying a 20$ jar to drink from because it was handmade is better or more authentic than buying a 20 cents jar made in a factory. If you want authenticity there's the Amish lifestyle, you don't need to go that far today you can homestead and live pretty much of the grid in many parts of the US (less of that in the rest of the World, GL doing that in Europe), you don't want that, it's fine most of us would like to enjoy the comforts that modern life in a developed nation (especially with the average salary of the average HN reader) can afford. But at least be honest with yourself, most of it is about effectively living the lifestyle of those who would never have to worry about their personal and familial finance but unlike them it doesn't holds true for most of us, even those of us with SV tech giant salary and vesting equity.
- SmellTheGlove 9y ago
  You've just described lifestyle marketing and the entire lifestyle segment. There are exceptions, of course, but there's a lot of money sunk into messaging mass produced items as something other than that. It's really interesting.
- Grustaf 9y ago
  >went way beyond imitating silk Yes, but the use in the article is specifically to imitate silk, and that's what we're discussing. >Like what? virtually every "hipster" product is the same mass produced consumer "garbage" with an added Apple commercial twist to it As I write elsewhere, I'm not actually a hipster but my tastes could be described as very hipster. I don't know who told you about my habits but they must have deceived you. The only clothing I buy that is advertised at all is 501s, and I buy the precisely because they are common, as a kind of hyper-hipsterism. Other than that I mostly wear cashmere and wool sweaters from small unknown Italian makers. Most of my shoes are handmade and bespoke from Budapest and my first suit was bespoke from a Savile Row tailor, I got it with my last savings while at university, to prepare me for getting a job. This may seem extravagant but long term it's very good value for money. The shoes cost less than 2 pairs of sneakers but last 20 years easily, the suit will probably last forever and cost about 3 weeks of wages at my first job. Most of all they look amazing and the feeling of wearing something that is essentially the pinnacle of human sartorial achievement is priceless. I'm sure the confidence that brings helped me land my first job, so they paid for themselves straight away. And because I buy extremely high quality stuff my annual clothing budget is actually smaller than for most. The name of the game is long term thinking. >Beyond that you have some silly brands that somehow convinced you that buying a 20$ jar to drink from because it was handmade is better or more authentic than buying a 20 cents jar made in a factory. Not at all. Nobody needed to convince me that handmade is better, especially not some "brand". I've always preferred things that were made with skill and care, it's just my nature. For example, when it was time to change the floor in my house I bought traditional solid hard floor boards from a guy I found that had an estate with an oak forest and a two-man saw mill. I drove there and picked them up myself, then went home and laid the floor. It took me two weeks but it was well worth it, every time I saw that floor I was reminded of my work and that man's forest. I got a polished piece of decorative stone for my cast iron wood stove from the same man's forest by the way, seeing that slab next to its wooden brethren every day was priceless. Those boards cost about twice as much as mid-tier veneer floor boards, but they will outlast the house. >If you want authenticity there's the Amish lifestyle Yes there is, and I think it's absolutely amazing. If I didn't have a family that doesn't entirely share my views (heating the house solely with wood is about the limit of household hipsterdom) there's a real chance I'd be living in Amish country, at a monastery or some mountain top. That's definitely were things were heading. I don't think you quite appreciate how hipster my taste actually is, you must have been gravely misinformed. One last example: while studying I lived in a cottage without indoor plumbing or heating, on an island outside Stockholm. I used a row boat to get to town. So no, to be honest it's not really about "living the lifestyle of those who would never have to worry about their personal and familial finance".

dogma1138 9y ago

Worsted wool, especially damask fabrics of it were definitely upscale and expensive, and went way beyond imitating silk, many of the dresses you'll see of English royalty including most of those wore by queen Victoria were made out of wool not silk. >It's simple, it's about buying things that have meaning, that were produced with more love and care than the average mass produced product. Like what? virtually every "hipster" product is the same mass produced consumer "garbage" with an added Apple commercial twist to it. The clothes are made in the same place, the coffee is rebranded, your special mustache oil is made by some pharmaceutical company in the philippines and the list goes on and on. You were effectively sold not a product but the idea or feeling behind the product, there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are honest about what you are buying. The few that aren't are effectively "luxury" brands, food items that used to be the staple hold of high end restaurants and personal chefs are now sold as "artisan foods" mostly since now there are people who will pay 150$ for some wassabi or 40$ for nice large salt crystals. Beyond that you have some silly brands that somehow convinced you that buying a 20$ jar to drink from because it was handmade is better or more authentic than buying a 20 cents jar made in a factory. If you want authenticity there's the Amish lifestyle, you don't need to go that far today you can homestead and live pretty much of the grid in many parts of the US (less of that in the rest of the World, GL doing that in Europe), you don't want that, it's fine most of us would like to enjoy the comforts that modern life in a developed nation (especially with the average salary of the average HN reader) can afford. But at least be honest with yourself, most of it is about effectively living the lifestyle of those who would never have to worry about their personal and familial finance but unlike them it doesn't holds true for most of us, even those of us with SV tech giant salary and vesting equity.

SmellTheGlove 9y ago
You've just described lifestyle marketing and the entire lifestyle segment. There are exceptions, of course, but there's a lot of money sunk into messaging mass produced items as something other than that. It's really interesting.
Grustaf 9y ago
>went way beyond imitating silk Yes, but the use in the article is specifically to imitate silk, and that's what we're discussing. >Like what? virtually every "hipster" product is the same mass produced consumer "garbage" with an added Apple commercial twist to it As I write elsewhere, I'm not actually a hipster but my tastes could be described as very hipster. I don't know who told you about my habits but they must have deceived you. The only clothing I buy that is advertised at all is 501s, and I buy the precisely because they are common, as a kind of hyper-hipsterism. Other than that I mostly wear cashmere and wool sweaters from small unknown Italian makers. Most of my shoes are handmade and bespoke from Budapest and my first suit was bespoke from a Savile Row tailor, I got it with my last savings while at university, to prepare me for getting a job. This may seem extravagant but long term it's very good value for money. The shoes cost less than 2 pairs of sneakers but last 20 years easily, the suit will probably last forever and cost about 3 weeks of wages at my first job. Most of all they look amazing and the feeling of wearing something that is essentially the pinnacle of human sartorial achievement is priceless. I'm sure the confidence that brings helped me land my first job, so they paid for themselves straight away. And because I buy extremely high quality stuff my annual clothing budget is actually smaller than for most. The name of the game is long term thinking. >Beyond that you have some silly brands that somehow convinced you that buying a 20$ jar to drink from because it was handmade is better or more authentic than buying a 20 cents jar made in a factory. Not at all. Nobody needed to convince me that handmade is better, especially not some "brand". I've always preferred things that were made with skill and care, it's just my nature. For example, when it was time to change the floor in my house I bought traditional solid hard floor boards from a guy I found that had an estate with an oak forest and a two-man saw mill. I drove there and picked them up myself, then went home and laid the floor. It took me two weeks but it was well worth it, every time I saw that floor I was reminded of my work and that man's forest. I got a polished piece of decorative stone for my cast iron wood stove from the same man's forest by the way, seeing that slab next to its wooden brethren every day was priceless. Those boards cost about twice as much as mid-tier veneer floor boards, but they will outlast the house. >If you want authenticity there's the Amish lifestyle Yes there is, and I think it's absolutely amazing. If I didn't have a family that doesn't entirely share my views (heating the house solely with wood is about the limit of household hipsterdom) there's a real chance I'd be living in Amish country, at a monastery or some mountain top. That's definitely were things were heading. I don't think you quite appreciate how hipster my taste actually is, you must have been gravely misinformed. One last example: while studying I lived in a cottage without indoor plumbing or heating, on an island outside Stockholm. I used a row boat to get to town. So no, to be honest it's not really about "living the lifestyle of those who would never have to worry about their personal and familial finance".