4 ms·

I wonder if government-operated brothels could be a better solution, this way there is a constant monitor on sex workers and human trafficking while providing e

I wonder if government-operated brothels could be a better solution, this way there is a constant monitor on sex workers and human trafficking while providing extra income to the government and being able to protect the sex worker/citizens its meant to protect. Not sure what would be the obvious cons. Happy to know if anyone points any out.

mschuster91 9y ago
The obvious con for sex workers is that the government knows the names of all the sex workers involved. In case of a reactionary backlash (as happened in Rhode Island after 6 years), the government can easily round up everyone involved for surveillance if they're still in sex work.
patrickaljord 9y ago
Public workers tend to get away with anything, like politicians or cops get away with murders, theft or even rape. Putting these unaccountable people in charge of brothels sounds like a nightmare.
- PhantomGremlin 9y ago
  There's a reason that Patty and Selma work for the Department of Motor Vehicles. They "suck the life out of everything". If they worked in a brothel it would be even less fun than visiting the DMV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_and_Selma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_and_Selma Yes it's a cartoon and a stereotype. But the reason it's funny is that it's so close to peoples' everyday experience with government employees.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Probably not; that would make the employees work for the government and fall under their payment rules, e.g. fixed hourly pay, instead of what they earn right now + tips + etc.
stephengillie 9y ago
Each brothel would probably be open the most inconvenient hours. Like 10am-4pm Tuesdays-Fridays. And paid sex outside a brothel would likely still be illegal.
SwellJoe 9y ago
I follow sex worker activist communities peripherally (some friends are sex workers or activists in that area), and I don't know of anyone working toward the goal of government-operated brothels (though many lean socialist on some fronts) or expressing a desire for "constant monitoring". They just want to be treated like any other sole proprietor. They want the rule of law to apply for them, so when someone cheats them, robs them, or steals from them, they can call the police and be treated with something approaching respect. They want to be able to legally save and spend their money (and pay taxes on it) like everybody else. And, they want to be able to use tools like Backpage to find clients. Oh, and they want to be able to communicate openly with other people in their local industry so they can look out for one another when it comes to dangerous clients. I think it's kinda the same thinking that leads to outlawing some kinds of sex work and/or equating all sex work with human trafficking (there's a whole category of so-called feminism that treats all sex work as human trafficking, which is just weird). Infantilizing the people who participate, as though they can't run their own small business without constant monitoring, and can't make their own decisions about the sort of work they want to do. There are good discussions to be had about health and legality and human trafficking, etc. But, I can't think of any good arguments for not acknowledging the basic autonomy of the workers themselves.
forkLding 9y ago
Just another quick note why I got the idea, it seems, at least to me that some sex workers depend on pimps for finding clients, protection and other services which reminded me of the mafia and their racketeering (my mom had a restaurant and was threatened for protection money as well). This sort of action is targeted by the government because it in a way negates the government's legitimacy and influence, because the taxes you pay ensure that you are under the protection of the government and mafia/pimps are in a way usurping that power. Thus instead of depending on underground/illegal organizations, it could be better to rely on a more public and generally more stable legal organization for protection and marketing, etc.
the_stc 9y ago
It'd quickly turn into a regulated mess. The proper solution is a large-scale extrajurisdictional organization that can take both sides of the trade. Like Uber (without the sexism), it would answer to both the contractors and the customers. Not being a government org would give it the freedom to maneuver. It could exact penalties on abusive clients (fines, banning or worse). It could engage law enforcement on its own terms to combat human trafficking. But also commercially it has many advantages. It would know demand and could thus implement demand based pricing and overall help workers maximize their earnings. A government org is never going to do proper marketing! A company can, and will. And it is a lucrative enough business that it will be able to provide real top quality service to everyone involved without sacrificing safety.

mschuster91 9y ago

The obvious con for sex workers is that the government knows the names of all the sex workers involved. In case of a reactionary backlash (as happened in Rhode Island after 6 years), the government can easily round up everyone involved for surveillance if they're still in sex work.

patrickaljord 9y ago

Public workers tend to get away with anything, like politicians or cops get away with murders, theft or even rape. Putting these unaccountable people in charge of brothels sounds like a nightmare.

PhantomGremlin 9y ago
There's a reason that Patty and Selma work for the Department of Motor Vehicles. They "suck the life out of everything". If they worked in a brothel it would be even less fun than visiting the DMV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_and_Selma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_and_Selma Yes it's a cartoon and a stereotype. But the reason it's funny is that it's so close to peoples' everyday experience with government employees.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

Probably not; that would make the employees work for the government and fall under their payment rules, e.g. fixed hourly pay, instead of what they earn right now + tips + etc.

stephengillie 9y ago

Each brothel would probably be open the most inconvenient hours. Like 10am-4pm Tuesdays-Fridays. And paid sex outside a brothel would likely still be illegal.

SwellJoe 9y ago

I follow sex worker activist communities peripherally (some friends are sex workers or activists in that area), and I don't know of anyone working toward the goal of government-operated brothels (though many lean socialist on some fronts) or expressing a desire for "constant monitoring". They just want to be treated like any other sole proprietor. They want the rule of law to apply for them, so when someone cheats them, robs them, or steals from them, they can call the police and be treated with something approaching respect. They want to be able to legally save and spend their money (and pay taxes on it) like everybody else. And, they want to be able to use tools like Backpage to find clients. Oh, and they want to be able to communicate openly with other people in their local industry so they can look out for one another when it comes to dangerous clients. I think it's kinda the same thinking that leads to outlawing some kinds of sex work and/or equating all sex work with human trafficking (there's a whole category of so-called feminism that treats all sex work as human trafficking, which is just weird). Infantilizing the people who participate, as though they can't run their own small business without constant monitoring, and can't make their own decisions about the sort of work they want to do. There are good discussions to be had about health and legality and human trafficking, etc. But, I can't think of any good arguments for not acknowledging the basic autonomy of the workers themselves.

forkLding 9y ago

Just another quick note why I got the idea, it seems, at least to me that some sex workers depend on pimps for finding clients, protection and other services which reminded me of the mafia and their racketeering (my mom had a restaurant and was threatened for protection money as well). This sort of action is targeted by the government because it in a way negates the government's legitimacy and influence, because the taxes you pay ensure that you are under the protection of the government and mafia/pimps are in a way usurping that power. Thus instead of depending on underground/illegal organizations, it could be better to rely on a more public and generally more stable legal organization for protection and marketing, etc.

the_stc 9y ago

It'd quickly turn into a regulated mess. The proper solution is a large-scale extrajurisdictional organization that can take both sides of the trade. Like Uber (without the sexism), it would answer to both the contractors and the customers. Not being a government org would give it the freedom to maneuver. It could exact penalties on abusive clients (fines, banning or worse). It could engage law enforcement on its own terms to combat human trafficking. But also commercially it has many advantages. It would know demand and could thus implement demand based pricing and overall help workers maximize their earnings. A government org is never going to do proper marketing! A company can, and will. And it is a lucrative enough business that it will be able to provide real top quality service to everyone involved without sacrificing safety.