4 ms·

From experience in New Zealand, where prostitution is also legal for citizens and permanent residents, it doesn't do much to increase human trafficking. I'm no

From experience in New Zealand, where prostitution is also legal for citizens and permanent residents, it doesn't do much to increase human trafficking. I'm not going to pretend it's all clean - certainly there's underage, trafficked and exploited people. However that's still the case when it's illegal, the difference is how we can find and protect those who have been exploited by others. When prostitution is legal a prostitute can go to the police without fear of prosecution (but not persecution unfortunately - less of an issue here because the laws were loosely enforced). Additionally a legitimate business is more attractive to most customers, so a legal businesses subject to inspection and record keeping requirements are more likely to take business from the less legitimate ones. My personal opinion is that prostitution is here to stay. We should focus on the safety of those involved. Giving them a criminal record is certainly not going to get them away from prostitution.

dvtv75 9y ago
When I was in Dunedin, there were rumored to be some rather underhanded tactics that brothels used against each other. One burned down shortly before I left, and word had it that it wasn't an accidental fire. But you know how rumors are - all it takes is one person to decide that "It's obvious, innit?" and they start repeating it as fact.
slowmotiony 9y ago
Well, Germany also legalitzed it and quickly rose up the ranks to be a top human trafficking spot in Europe, but it seems like everyone in this thread completely ignores it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany
- sitharus 9y ago
  I'm not going to argue against the facts, but I will argue that the results for victims are different. If a victim of sex trafficking is caught on the street when prostitution is illegal they're now a criminal and will probably be dealt with as such by police looking for easy numbers. When they haven't committed a crime they should be able to get aid from the authorities and their pimps and traffickers arrested. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and resources aren't always available for whatever reason. I don't like it, but I also don't like creating criminals out of victims.
- JepZ 9y ago
  Well, but the story doesn't seem to be over yet (02.07.2017): http://www.dw.com/en/germany-introduces-unpopular-prostitution-law/a-39511761 http://www.dw.com/en/germany-introduces-unpopular-prostituti...
- icebraining 9y ago
  Your link doesn't say that Germany is a top human trafficking spot in Europe, or that it only became so after legalization. Do you have a better one?
icebraining 9y ago
When prostitution is legal a prostitute can go to the police without fear of prosecution In theory, Sweden's approach of only criminalizing the clients (and pimps, I assume) should provide that too; a bit like the decriminalization of drug consumption. On the other hand, since every "john" is at risk if the prostitute does go to the police, it's much more likely that they'll avoid doing so. Even where drug use is decriminalized, users don't tend to go to the police if their dealer rips them off or physically assaults them.
- Iv 9y ago
  If the johns are criminalized, there is still a disincentive to go to the police: if they know you as a prostitute, they'll know to watch you closely to catch some johns and that will impair your business. Also I think that provides a side effect too: if a john is already committing a crime when going to a prostitute, he may be more likely to do so anonymously and with less trace, making it easier for them to add robbery or assault to their acts. I think that hypocrisy never helps. If it is illegal to go to a prostitute, it should be illegal to be one, their existence would have no legal justification.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    "I think that hypocrisy never helps. If it is illegal to go to a prostitute, it should be illegal to be one, their existence would have no legal justification." I disagree. Few are forced to visit and hire a prostitute. But we know people are forced to be a prostitute (trafficking), some do it for drugs, and some feel they have no other way to survive. While society understands not every prostitute is in one of these categories, it seems a cruel punishment to charge them with a crime. MOstly because it would be charging a rape victim with the crime of being raped.
    - Iv 9y ago
      Well some people are forced into gang violence. That does not give a good reason to legalize violence. Some people are forced into working in sweatshops to sew t-shirts. That does not make a good reason to criminalize t-shirts. Forcing someone into doing something is already illegal. The forced person is a victim, most laws are clear about it. If the issue we are talking about is fighting against human-trafficking, the only question should be to know if legalizing prostitution would help the police find human traffickers. And this should be the top question of the debate IMHO. I don't care much to live in a society that answers differently than me to the question "Should prostitution be legal?" but I would love to be in a society where human-trafficking does not exist. I do have the feeling that pimps do enjoy the hypocrisy and moral ambiguity of the laws: it makes their services invaluable and their activities under the radar. But this opinion mostly comes from anecdotes and common sense. I am inclined to change opinions based on facts.

dvtv75 9y ago

When I was in Dunedin, there were rumored to be some rather underhanded tactics that brothels used against each other. One burned down shortly before I left, and word had it that it wasn't an accidental fire. But you know how rumors are - all it takes is one person to decide that "It's obvious, innit?" and they start repeating it as fact.

slowmotiony 9y ago

Well, Germany also legalitzed it and quickly rose up the ranks to be a top human trafficking spot in Europe, but it seems like everyone in this thread completely ignores it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany

sitharus 9y ago
I'm not going to argue against the facts, but I will argue that the results for victims are different. If a victim of sex trafficking is caught on the street when prostitution is illegal they're now a criminal and will probably be dealt with as such by police looking for easy numbers. When they haven't committed a crime they should be able to get aid from the authorities and their pimps and traffickers arrested. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and resources aren't always available for whatever reason. I don't like it, but I also don't like creating criminals out of victims.
JepZ 9y ago
Well, but the story doesn't seem to be over yet (02.07.2017): http://www.dw.com/en/germany-introduces-unpopular-prostitution-law/a-39511761 http://www.dw.com/en/germany-introduces-unpopular-prostituti...
icebraining 9y ago
Your link doesn't say that Germany is a top human trafficking spot in Europe, or that it only became so after legalization. Do you have a better one?

icebraining 9y ago

When prostitution is legal a prostitute can go to the police without fear of prosecution In theory, Sweden's approach of only criminalizing the clients (and pimps, I assume) should provide that too; a bit like the decriminalization of drug consumption. On the other hand, since every "john" is at risk if the prostitute does go to the police, it's much more likely that they'll avoid doing so. Even where drug use is decriminalized, users don't tend to go to the police if their dealer rips them off or physically assaults them.

Iv 9y ago
If the johns are criminalized, there is still a disincentive to go to the police: if they know you as a prostitute, they'll know to watch you closely to catch some johns and that will impair your business. Also I think that provides a side effect too: if a john is already committing a crime when going to a prostitute, he may be more likely to do so anonymously and with less trace, making it easier for them to add robbery or assault to their acts. I think that hypocrisy never helps. If it is illegal to go to a prostitute, it should be illegal to be one, their existence would have no legal justification.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  "I think that hypocrisy never helps. If it is illegal to go to a prostitute, it should be illegal to be one, their existence would have no legal justification." I disagree. Few are forced to visit and hire a prostitute. But we know people are forced to be a prostitute (trafficking), some do it for drugs, and some feel they have no other way to survive. While society understands not every prostitute is in one of these categories, it seems a cruel punishment to charge them with a crime. MOstly because it would be charging a rape victim with the crime of being raped.
  - Iv 9y ago
    Well some people are forced into gang violence. That does not give a good reason to legalize violence. Some people are forced into working in sweatshops to sew t-shirts. That does not make a good reason to criminalize t-shirts. Forcing someone into doing something is already illegal. The forced person is a victim, most laws are clear about it. If the issue we are talking about is fighting against human-trafficking, the only question should be to know if legalizing prostitution would help the police find human traffickers. And this should be the top question of the debate IMHO. I don't care much to live in a society that answers differently than me to the question "Should prostitution be legal?" but I would love to be in a society where human-trafficking does not exist. I do have the feeling that pimps do enjoy the hypocrisy and moral ambiguity of the laws: it makes their services invaluable and their activities under the radar. But this opinion mostly comes from anecdotes and common sense. I am inclined to change opinions based on facts.