5 ms·

This article makes it sound like WIN 18,446 is a safe and effective male contraceptive and it was abandoned completely just because it has bad interactions with

This article makes it sound like WIN 18,446 is a safe and effective male contraceptive and it was abandoned completely just because it has bad interactions with alcohol. Is this actually true? There are lots of drugs on the market that have a bad interaction with alcohol. It's possible to just not drink alcohol.

auggierose 9y ago
Having a contraceptive pill not working together well with alcohol is probably one of the worst user interfaces ever. At least judging from the behaviour I observe amongst people in the UK :)
- drngdds 9y ago
  Not for people who don't drink or would be willing to stop drinking. That has to be a nontrivial market. Why not make it and just put a big warning label on the bottle?
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    Even for people who don't drink, there's still small amounts of alcohol in some medication, mouth wash, etc. If the severity of the reaction is high enough, even small amounts could lead to a medical emergency.
    - GhotiFish 9y ago
      I hear what you're saying here, but just taking what the article was saying, that shouldn't be much of an issue. Then one of the participants drank some contraband Scotch and became unusually, violently ill. He confessed his transgression to the researchers, and follow-up studies confirmed his account: WIN 18,446 didn’t mix well with booze. I suspect this inmate was more than a little liquored up. Just a guess. But more importantly this part: WIN’s side effects sounded familiar to Amory. In his clinical practice, he’d occasionally prescribed Antabuse (disulfiram) to patients who struggled with alcohol addiction. The drug blocks a form of the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH), which helps the body metabolize alcohol; which means it's effects are used in practice to combat alcoholism. Can't be that bad. Though, that still means that there could be other interactions not described?
  - woodandsteel 9y ago
    >That has to be a nontrivial market. Yes, but it might be so much smaller a market than a male contraceptive without that problem that the company decided it wouldn't be able to recoup its development costs.
    - chillacy 9y ago
      I was looking up numbers in the US and came across this: > 30% of american adults don't drink at all > the top 10% of drinkers consume 74 drinks per week (over 10 drinks per day) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think... Wow, that's horrifying.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
mabub24 9y ago
I'm saying this fully aware I am not a doctor but... I think it depends on the severity of the response, and the context of use. For severity, it's not clear in the article but it seems like the adverse response was quick and quite severe. Another problem with reactions to alcohol: let's face it, many sexual encounters are surrounded by alcohol. For many people, for better or for worse, alcohol and sex go together. You want people to take your contraception, but if you get immediately ill whenever you drink are you going to be taking that pill like clockwork? Sex is important, and, frankly, people take a lot of risk for the sake of having sex. Often that means choosing to drink alcohol, not always, but often. It's complicated, and I know I sound like someone trying to rationalize doing the least amount of work, but the truth is you want male contraception to be easy because men could potentially be using it their entire lives. Female oral contraception works, but it likely would not pass medical trials today precisely because of many of the side effects that occur when one takes it.
bdamm 9y ago
For many candidates I suspect the requirement of not drinking alcohol would be 98% effective.
SolarNet 9y ago
I think it is how dangerous the reaction with alcohol is. Most drugs with alcohol make you extra drunk. This one gives you a heart attack.
cbr 9y ago
I was also curious about this. A male contraceptive that is incompatible with drinking would be a good fit for many people who don't ever drink, including me. There would definitely be people it was a poor fit for, but it still seems like there's a teetotalers market. The main question to me is whether it's compatible with the small amounts of alcohol that are in many foods.

auggierose 9y ago

Having a contraceptive pill not working together well with alcohol is probably one of the worst user interfaces ever. At least judging from the behaviour I observe amongst people in the UK :)

drngdds 9y ago
Not for people who don't drink or would be willing to stop drinking. That has to be a nontrivial market. Why not make it and just put a big warning label on the bottle?
- djsumdog 9y ago
  Even for people who don't drink, there's still small amounts of alcohol in some medication, mouth wash, etc. If the severity of the reaction is high enough, even small amounts could lead to a medical emergency.
  - GhotiFish 9y ago
    I hear what you're saying here, but just taking what the article was saying, that shouldn't be much of an issue. Then one of the participants drank some contraband Scotch and became unusually, violently ill. He confessed his transgression to the researchers, and follow-up studies confirmed his account: WIN 18,446 didn’t mix well with booze. I suspect this inmate was more than a little liquored up. Just a guess. But more importantly this part: WIN’s side effects sounded familiar to Amory. In his clinical practice, he’d occasionally prescribed Antabuse (disulfiram) to patients who struggled with alcohol addiction. The drug blocks a form of the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH), which helps the body metabolize alcohol; which means it's effects are used in practice to combat alcoholism. Can't be that bad. Though, that still means that there could be other interactions not described?
- woodandsteel 9y ago
  >That has to be a nontrivial market. Yes, but it might be so much smaller a market than a male contraceptive without that problem that the company decided it wouldn't be able to recoup its development costs.
  - chillacy 9y ago
    I was looking up numbers in the US and came across this: > 30% of american adults don't drink at all > the top 10% of drinkers consume 74 drinks per week (over 10 drinks per day) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think... Wow, that's horrifying.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

mabub24 9y ago

I'm saying this fully aware I am not a doctor but... I think it depends on the severity of the response, and the context of use. For severity, it's not clear in the article but it seems like the adverse response was quick and quite severe. Another problem with reactions to alcohol: let's face it, many sexual encounters are surrounded by alcohol. For many people, for better or for worse, alcohol and sex go together. You want people to take your contraception, but if you get immediately ill whenever you drink are you going to be taking that pill like clockwork? Sex is important, and, frankly, people take a lot of risk for the sake of having sex. Often that means choosing to drink alcohol, not always, but often. It's complicated, and I know I sound like someone trying to rationalize doing the least amount of work, but the truth is you want male contraception to be easy because men could potentially be using it their entire lives. Female oral contraception works, but it likely would not pass medical trials today precisely because of many of the side effects that occur when one takes it.

bdamm 9y ago

For many candidates I suspect the requirement of not drinking alcohol would be 98% effective.

SolarNet 9y ago

I think it is how dangerous the reaction with alcohol is. Most drugs with alcohol make you extra drunk. This one gives you a heart attack.

cbr 9y ago

I was also curious about this. A male contraceptive that is incompatible with drinking would be a good fit for many people who don't ever drink, including me. There would definitely be people it was a poor fit for, but it still seems like there's a teetotalers market. The main question to me is whether it's compatible with the small amounts of alcohol that are in many foods.