5 ms·

Look, we have a couple problems: low interest rates, large variance in productivity / earnings, really shitty hotels because they're operating on old-world assu

Look, we have a couple problems: low interest rates, large variance in productivity / earnings, really shitty hotels because they're operating on old-world assumptions. One under appreciated thing about apps like Uber and AirBnb is the star rating system. I know I'm a five star tenant. I know I never shit in the sink. I know I never leave a bunch of condoms or cigar butts all over the balcony or hotel room. But the hotel doesn't know that. They need to steam clean the sheets and install super-fat-person-proof toilets. And elevators for the disabled. And a hotel room with a stove and usable fridge? Hah! Only two times have I had that and one was in a room that cost $10k a week (don't ask, I was the +1). Then it comes to AirBnb and global housing stock. Someone like me who is currently in Kiev in an AirBnb is always going to be able to out-spend a local. The key is to align incentives. I literally would not have come to Kiev if they'd banned AirBnb. I would have gone back to Lithuania (love Vilnius) or to Turkey or Estonia. With the drive to pull in tourist money going on worldwide why should cities ban AirBnb (or Uber for that matter)? "Because it's driving up rents!" Ok, so let's solve that problem. I have no issue with cities imposing a 30% tax on AirBnbs and using the income to build up the housing stock for locals. They should do this, it makes perfect sense. "Because AirBnbers are loud and disruptive!" Make hosts responsible for noise complaint fines and pretty quick loud tenants are going to get bad ratings. "Because I want community, not a bunch of transient AirBnbers that don't even speak the local language!" If it is getting really, really bad, (say 20% or higher of housing stock in a community) maybe scale up the taxes to combat this. But let's not miss the positives either. I've met a number of cool people both hosting them in my place just before traveling or by interacting with them in areas I never would have been in had I been staying in a hotel. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water and all that.

archagon 9y ago
Airbnb is one of those rare products that cracked open an entire world of possibilities for me. For the first time, I've gotten the chance to live as a local all around the world, for even less money than at a hotel or sometimes even a hostel. Ordinary folks just didn't travel like this in the past, getting to know distant cities right from the ground floor. Adjustments should be made on a city-to-city basis, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The rewards are just too sweet! (For the record, I've mostly stayed in shared accommodations, since entire apartment rentals are very expensive for prolonged travel. It seems people are mostly OK with this side of Airbnb.)
- extra88 9y ago
  I think the market for shared accommodations will never be very big and the presence of an owner/tenant can keep neighbor-affecting bad behavior in check.
- pixelmonkey 9y ago
  > Ordinary folks just didn't travel like this in the past, getting to know distant cities right from the ground floor. Not quite true. In 2005, I did a long road trip in Italy. In that year, in almost every gas station in Italy, you could buy books with listings of local B&B's and "agriturismo" locales, which were essentially B&B's that were on farms and usually included a farm dinner with the hosting family, in addition to breakfast and accommodations. The cost to stay in these places was always a fraction of the hotel. It was a little inconvenient to use them though: you needed the books, and then you needed to dial the owners and ask if their place was available ahead of your arrival. You can imagine why this market exists in Italy: the hotels in every city are geared toward tourists (thus, lots of $$$) but Italians have such a beautiful (and geographically small) country, and they needed a way to do local tourism at affordable prices. I imagine the fact that you needed to call the owners (and speak Italian to them) acted as a barrier against tourists. I am a huge fan of Airbnb. I point this out, however, because I always personally viewed Airbnb less as an "improvement over hotel travel", and instead as a "platform that brought efficiency to the B&B market". Basically, B&Bs were a great way to travel, but most people didn't hassle to do so, because inventory/availability was too hard to scan, and it usually required at least a little local knowledge. In 2005, if you had done a road trip through Italy like I had, while seeing the kinds of transactions going online, you could have put 2 and 2 together and realized this needed to exist as an international service. But, even I didn't see it, then!
  - Mediterraneo10 9y ago
    AirBnB is significantly different from those B&Bs in that with B&Bs, you had to interact with the family, that family may have scrutinized your coming and going, and you had to eat their food which may have been inferior to other local dining options. Now that AirBnB is dominated by people renting out a flat that they themselves don’t live in, your only interaction with the owner is just picking up the keys (and a lot of AirBnB hosts you never actually see, since they leave the keys somewhere for you to pick up). I love staying in various cities for prolonged amounts of time and soaking up local culture, but I definitely don’t want to be forced to interact with the proprietors. I’d rather just get out into the city and interact with the people I choose. There is a lot more privacy and choice involved in AirBnB, which is essential to enjoyable travels.
OldSchoolJohnny 9y ago
Speaking as someone who is experiencing the implications of a super low rental vacancy rate, I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few.
- jseliger 9y ago
  I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few. You know, I've heard about some crazy cutting-edge technologies like steel frames and elevators that can allow us to raise the vacancy rate by increasing the total number of usable units in a given metro area.
  - iaskwhy 9y ago
    We might need to consider not all cities are made to be tall. You cannot make Lisbon or Vienna go tall, otherwise it's not Lisbon or Vienna anymore... Also, it's silly to move local residents to the outskirts to have tourists right in the city center as tourists don't have to commute on a daily basis, they can be away from the center, it's perfectly fine for them.
  - djf1 9y ago
    Even steel frames are unnecessary in a lot of cities with a housing shortage. A cheaper wood frame can get you up to 5 stories at a fraction of the cost. I'd say a bigger problem is local low-density zoning restrictions, where it's legally prohibited to build more than one or two units per lot.
  - pyroinferno 9y ago
    "Everything must be like a commieblock!"
- zimablue 9y ago
  Well I'm in your situation, and I disagree. Under the current socioeconomic system and pricing I'll likely never afford to own where I live, but things which make house pricing more efficient aren't the enemy. I'd kill stamp duty (uk tax on buying/selling properties), push for higher urban density, push for wealth taxes because there are underlying problems, trying to bluntly manipulate the market doesn't generally have great outcomes.
legulere 9y ago
The problem is that there are already regulations, but AirBnBs are skirting them.
- jgalt212 9y ago
  Right and Obama's DOJ doesn't prosecute racketeers, they promote them. WHITE HOUSE APPOINTS BRIAN CHESKY AS PRESIDENTIAL AMBASSADOR FOR GLOBAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP http://blog.atairbnb.com/white-house-appoints-ceo-brian-chesky-a-presidential-ambassador-for-global-entrepreneurship/ http://blog.atairbnb.com/white-house-appoints-ceo-brian-ches...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - beedogs 9y ago
    Uh, you're about eight months late on that criticism...
gordon_freeman 9y ago
> "I have no issue with cities imposing a 30% tax on AirBnbs and using the income to build up the housing stock for locals. They should do this, it makes perfect sense." The problem is that USA is a capitalist country and allows markets to dictate the supply and demand in housing. Look at San Francisco -- the locals have been displaced by techies who can pay as much rent as landlords demand (sometimes even 50% increase in rent over a couple of years). do we have any solution for this kind of problem? I don't think so.
- laingc 9y ago
  This sort of sentiment is just absolutely outrageously incorrect. Go and look at any proper study or report on house prices, and you will find who it exception that it is land use regulations that are responsible. Sam Francisco is a prime example, though I could just as easily cite London or Auckland. The supply of housing is restricted by tight land use regulations, and so of course the prices go up. Anybody who wants to blame free markets for the obvious, foreseeable effects of regulation is clearly blinded by ideology.
- Houshalter 9y ago
  Yes we do, it's called building denser.

archagon 9y ago

Airbnb is one of those rare products that cracked open an entire world of possibilities for me. For the first time, I've gotten the chance to live as a local all around the world, for even less money than at a hotel or sometimes even a hostel. Ordinary folks just didn't travel like this in the past, getting to know distant cities right from the ground floor. Adjustments should be made on a city-to-city basis, but you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The rewards are just too sweet! (For the record, I've mostly stayed in shared accommodations, since entire apartment rentals are very expensive for prolonged travel. It seems people are mostly OK with this side of Airbnb.)

extra88 9y ago
I think the market for shared accommodations will never be very big and the presence of an owner/tenant can keep neighbor-affecting bad behavior in check.
pixelmonkey 9y ago
> Ordinary folks just didn't travel like this in the past, getting to know distant cities right from the ground floor. Not quite true. In 2005, I did a long road trip in Italy. In that year, in almost every gas station in Italy, you could buy books with listings of local B&B's and "agriturismo" locales, which were essentially B&B's that were on farms and usually included a farm dinner with the hosting family, in addition to breakfast and accommodations. The cost to stay in these places was always a fraction of the hotel. It was a little inconvenient to use them though: you needed the books, and then you needed to dial the owners and ask if their place was available ahead of your arrival. You can imagine why this market exists in Italy: the hotels in every city are geared toward tourists (thus, lots of $$$) but Italians have such a beautiful (and geographically small) country, and they needed a way to do local tourism at affordable prices. I imagine the fact that you needed to call the owners (and speak Italian to them) acted as a barrier against tourists. I am a huge fan of Airbnb. I point this out, however, because I always personally viewed Airbnb less as an "improvement over hotel travel", and instead as a "platform that brought efficiency to the B&B market". Basically, B&Bs were a great way to travel, but most people didn't hassle to do so, because inventory/availability was too hard to scan, and it usually required at least a little local knowledge. In 2005, if you had done a road trip through Italy like I had, while seeing the kinds of transactions going online, you could have put 2 and 2 together and realized this needed to exist as an international service. But, even I didn't see it, then!
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  AirBnB is significantly different from those B&Bs in that with B&Bs, you had to interact with the family, that family may have scrutinized your coming and going, and you had to eat their food which may have been inferior to other local dining options. Now that AirBnB is dominated by people renting out a flat that they themselves don’t live in, your only interaction with the owner is just picking up the keys (and a lot of AirBnB hosts you never actually see, since they leave the keys somewhere for you to pick up). I love staying in various cities for prolonged amounts of time and soaking up local culture, but I definitely don’t want to be forced to interact with the proprietors. I’d rather just get out into the city and interact with the people I choose. There is a lot more privacy and choice involved in AirBnB, which is essential to enjoyable travels.

OldSchoolJohnny 9y ago

Speaking as someone who is experiencing the implications of a super low rental vacancy rate, I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few.

jseliger 9y ago
I think most people in my situation are with me when we say shut it down, entirely, in any city with a low tenancy vacancy rate. It's hurting society at large to the benefit of a precious few. You know, I've heard about some crazy cutting-edge technologies like steel frames and elevators that can allow us to raise the vacancy rate by increasing the total number of usable units in a given metro area.
- iaskwhy 9y ago
  We might need to consider not all cities are made to be tall. You cannot make Lisbon or Vienna go tall, otherwise it's not Lisbon or Vienna anymore... Also, it's silly to move local residents to the outskirts to have tourists right in the city center as tourists don't have to commute on a daily basis, they can be away from the center, it's perfectly fine for them.
- djf1 9y ago
  Even steel frames are unnecessary in a lot of cities with a housing shortage. A cheaper wood frame can get you up to 5 stories at a fraction of the cost. I'd say a bigger problem is local low-density zoning restrictions, where it's legally prohibited to build more than one or two units per lot.
- pyroinferno 9y ago
  "Everything must be like a commieblock!"
zimablue 9y ago
Well I'm in your situation, and I disagree. Under the current socioeconomic system and pricing I'll likely never afford to own where I live, but things which make house pricing more efficient aren't the enemy. I'd kill stamp duty (uk tax on buying/selling properties), push for higher urban density, push for wealth taxes because there are underlying problems, trying to bluntly manipulate the market doesn't generally have great outcomes.

legulere 9y ago

The problem is that there are already regulations, but AirBnBs are skirting them.

jgalt212 9y ago
Right and Obama's DOJ doesn't prosecute racketeers, they promote them. WHITE HOUSE APPOINTS BRIAN CHESKY AS PRESIDENTIAL AMBASSADOR FOR GLOBAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP http://blog.atairbnb.com/white-house-appoints-ceo-brian-chesky-a-presidential-ambassador-for-global-entrepreneurship/ http://blog.atairbnb.com/white-house-appoints-ceo-brian-ches...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- beedogs 9y ago
  Uh, you're about eight months late on that criticism...

gordon_freeman 9y ago

> "I have no issue with cities imposing a 30% tax on AirBnbs and using the income to build up the housing stock for locals. They should do this, it makes perfect sense." The problem is that USA is a capitalist country and allows markets to dictate the supply and demand in housing. Look at San Francisco -- the locals have been displaced by techies who can pay as much rent as landlords demand (sometimes even 50% increase in rent over a couple of years). do we have any solution for this kind of problem? I don't think so.

laingc 9y ago
This sort of sentiment is just absolutely outrageously incorrect. Go and look at any proper study or report on house prices, and you will find who it exception that it is land use regulations that are responsible. Sam Francisco is a prime example, though I could just as easily cite London or Auckland. The supply of housing is restricted by tight land use regulations, and so of course the prices go up. Anybody who wants to blame free markets for the obvious, foreseeable effects of regulation is clearly blinded by ideology.
Houshalter 9y ago
Yes we do, it's called building denser.