4 ms·

Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. Thi

Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. This forces the bottom rung out of the city, because they can't afford to live there, and now minimum wage jobs (which we need to run the services people want) can't be filled, artists and musicians disappear, and the city becomes a place only for tourists and the wealthy.

cjalmeida 9y ago
How's that different than what's being going on NYC for the past 30 years or so? Gentrification is a thing, Airbnb or not.
- jmcgough 9y ago
  It accelerates it by further decreasing housing supply. The housing problems of NYC are complex and challenging, and AirBNB is just a part of that.
- Frondo 9y ago
  These apps and startups and technology in general can certainly accelerate the shift from one status quo to a new one; AirBNB and Uber have disrupted hotel and taxi industries, certainly. The question we should be asking, as a society, is the new status quo one we want? Is it making life better overall? Or is it one that only a few of us want, because they're getting rich while the rest of us are getting more hard done by? If tech is pushing us to a new status quo, and it's one we want (like a lot of medical technology), then that's great, the societal conversation will be short: yes, we like it, let's go. If the tech is pushing us to a new status quo that we don't want, that's when we need to reevaluate, and maybe regulate it.
  - Rjevski 9y ago
    It's definitely better for me at least. I can pretty much go live anywhere in the world and arrange accommodation in a few clicks - what's not to like?
    - Frondo 9y ago
      Your response is almost a perfect description of the incentives that lead to the tragedy of the commons: "this is better for me, even if it's worse for society". Here's a little video that explains it, for those that haven't yet heard of the tragedy of the commons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJmaJCx7-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJmaJCx7-s
pmiller2 9y ago
Not only that, but AirBnB prices for "whole apartment/house" listings are often not less than the price of a decent hotel room in the area! This makes them worse than useless in my view, except possibly for getting a last-minute accommodation.
- BMorearty 9y ago
  A whole apartment/house does have some amenities that aren't in a decent hotel, though. Like a kitchen. Or enough beds for a group of 5. I appreciate those when traveling on a budget and/or with my family. - Airbnb employee.
  - santoshalper 9y ago
    Of course, a hotel also has some amenities that an AirBNB rental does not, like cleaning up after you. But the price difference is often large enough that I'm willing to do my own laundry.
  - wcummings 9y ago
    Extended stay hotels will offer rooms with a kitchens, and can accommodate a family of 5, maybe just not for a price you like. Just be honest and say you like it cause its cheaper and you think your vacation is more important than the needs of residents.
    - BMorearty 9y ago
      Extended stay hotels require an extended stay, don't they? It's been 45 years since I stayed in a single place for 30 days while on vacation. And please let's keep this civil.
      - troisx 9y ago
        No, extended stay places do not require an extended stay. They are just equipped to provide for an extended stay should you choose to do so.
      - 9y ago
santoshalper 9y ago
Did you know hotels take up space that could be used for housing as well? It's crazy, but I looked it up and it's true. Using urban space for hotels, stores, and other amenities absolutely reduces the number of housing units thus potentially driving up prices for renters. In fact, this is a major factor in urban planning. Assuming that this is unique to AirBNB is poorly thought out.
- extra88 9y ago
  Right, but AirBnB ignores the zoning laws that were established as part of the urban planning of cities. I think there are only a few cities, like NYC, where it creates a significant problem. Where it is a problem, laws and regulations should be enacted in response and companies like AirBnB should be cooperative.
- dx034 9y ago
  Hotels tend to use space more efficiently. Most hotels are purpose built and maximise the number of rooms per building. If you convert residential buildings into hotels you'll end up with a less efficient use of this space.
AnthonyMouse 9y ago
> Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. The argument that zoning laws reduce housing costs is backwards. The only reason people want to convert long-term housing to short-term rentals is bad zoning that has led to a shortage (and thus high prices) of short-term rentals. The solution to that, as is the solution to high housing costs in general, is to build more housing. Which is the thing zoning laws stand in the way of.
cvsh 9y ago
>and the city becomes a place only for tourists and the wealthy The city is becoming a place for tourists and the wealthy because tourists and the wealthy have decided they want to live in the city. AirBnB and rising prices more broadly are an effect of this, not a cause of it. When people are willing to pay more to live somewhere, then prices there rise, and people that can't afford to pay those prices are forced to live somewhere else. You can try to fight this by fighting the symptoms, like regulating AirBnB, or like Prop 13, and while you might advantage a few grandfathered-in homeowners, you're going to end up with negative externalities that will just screw over the poor even more.

cjalmeida 9y ago

How's that different than what's being going on NYC for the past 30 years or so? Gentrification is a thing, Airbnb or not.

jmcgough 9y ago
It accelerates it by further decreasing housing supply. The housing problems of NYC are complex and challenging, and AirBNB is just a part of that.
Frondo 9y ago
These apps and startups and technology in general can certainly accelerate the shift from one status quo to a new one; AirBNB and Uber have disrupted hotel and taxi industries, certainly. The question we should be asking, as a society, is the new status quo one we want? Is it making life better overall? Or is it one that only a few of us want, because they're getting rich while the rest of us are getting more hard done by? If tech is pushing us to a new status quo, and it's one we want (like a lot of medical technology), then that's great, the societal conversation will be short: yes, we like it, let's go. If the tech is pushing us to a new status quo that we don't want, that's when we need to reevaluate, and maybe regulate it.
- Rjevski 9y ago
  It's definitely better for me at least. I can pretty much go live anywhere in the world and arrange accommodation in a few clicks - what's not to like?
  - Frondo 9y ago
    Your response is almost a perfect description of the incentives that lead to the tragedy of the commons: "this is better for me, even if it's worse for society". Here's a little video that explains it, for those that haven't yet heard of the tragedy of the commons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJmaJCx7-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJmaJCx7-s

pmiller2 9y ago

Not only that, but AirBnB prices for "whole apartment/house" listings are often not less than the price of a decent hotel room in the area! This makes them worse than useless in my view, except possibly for getting a last-minute accommodation.

BMorearty 9y ago
A whole apartment/house does have some amenities that aren't in a decent hotel, though. Like a kitchen. Or enough beds for a group of 5. I appreciate those when traveling on a budget and/or with my family. - Airbnb employee.
- santoshalper 9y ago
  Of course, a hotel also has some amenities that an AirBNB rental does not, like cleaning up after you. But the price difference is often large enough that I'm willing to do my own laundry.
- wcummings 9y ago
  Extended stay hotels will offer rooms with a kitchens, and can accommodate a family of 5, maybe just not for a price you like. Just be honest and say you like it cause its cheaper and you think your vacation is more important than the needs of residents.
  - BMorearty 9y ago
    Extended stay hotels require an extended stay, don't they? It's been 45 years since I stayed in a single place for 30 days while on vacation. And please let's keep this civil.
    - troisx 9y ago
      No, extended stay places do not require an extended stay. They are just equipped to provide for an extended stay should you choose to do so.
    - 9y ago

santoshalper 9y ago

Did you know hotels take up space that could be used for housing as well? It's crazy, but I looked it up and it's true. Using urban space for hotels, stores, and other amenities absolutely reduces the number of housing units thus potentially driving up prices for renters. In fact, this is a major factor in urban planning. Assuming that this is unique to AirBNB is poorly thought out.

extra88 9y ago
Right, but AirBnB ignores the zoning laws that were established as part of the urban planning of cities. I think there are only a few cities, like NYC, where it creates a significant problem. Where it is a problem, laws and regulations should be enacted in response and companies like AirBnB should be cooperative.
dx034 9y ago
Hotels tend to use space more efficiently. Most hotels are purpose built and maximise the number of rooms per building. If you convert residential buildings into hotels you'll end up with a less efficient use of this space.

AnthonyMouse 9y ago

> Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. The argument that zoning laws reduce housing costs is backwards. The only reason people want to convert long-term housing to short-term rentals is bad zoning that has led to a shortage (and thus high prices) of short-term rentals. The solution to that, as is the solution to high housing costs in general, is to build more housing. Which is the thing zoning laws stand in the way of.

cvsh 9y ago

>and the city becomes a place only for tourists and the wealthy The city is becoming a place for tourists and the wealthy because tourists and the wealthy have decided they want to live in the city. AirBnB and rising prices more broadly are an effect of this, not a cause of it. When people are willing to pay more to live somewhere, then prices there rise, and people that can't afford to pay those prices are forced to live somewhere else. You can try to fight this by fighting the symptoms, like regulating AirBnB, or like Prop 13, and while you might advantage a few grandfathered-in homeowners, you're going to end up with negative externalities that will just screw over the poor even more.