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Why is it a problem, or what problems has it been causing in NYC? I understand the legality is questionable but I don't know why the laws exist in the first pla

• jmcgough 9y ago
  Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. This forces the bottom rung out of the city, because they can't afford to live there, and now minimum wage jobs (which we need to run the services people want) can't be filled, artists and musicians disappear, and the city becomes a place only for tourists and the wealthy.
  • cjalmeida 9y ago
    How's that different than what's being going on NYC for the past 30 years or so? Gentrification is a thing, Airbnb or not.
    • jmcgough 9y ago
      It accelerates it by further decreasing housing supply. The housing problems of NYC are complex and challenging, and AirBNB is just a part of that.
    • Frondo 9y ago
      These apps and startups and technology in general can certainly accelerate the shift from one status quo to a new one; AirBNB and Uber have disrupted hotel and taxi industries, certainly. The question we should be asking, as a society, is the new status quo one we want? Is it making life better overall? Or is it one that only a few of us want, because they're getting rich while the rest of us are getting more hard done by? If tech is pushing us to a new status quo, and it's one we want (like a lot of medical technology), then that's great, the societal conversation will be short: yes, we like it, let's go. If the tech is pushing us to a new status quo that we don't want, that's when we need to reevaluate, and maybe regulate it.
      • Rjevski 9y ago
        It's definitely better for me at least. I can pretty much go live anywhere in the world and arrange accommodation in a few clicks - what's not to like?
        • Frondo 9y ago
          Your response is almost a perfect description of the incentives that lead to the tragedy of the commons: "this is better for me, even if it's worse for society". Here's a little video that explains it, for those that haven't yet heard of the tragedy of the commons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJmaJCx7-s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJmaJCx7-s
  • pmiller2 9y ago
    Not only that, but AirBnB prices for "whole apartment/house" listings are often not less than the price of a decent hotel room in the area! This makes them worse than useless in my view, except possibly for getting a last-minute accommodation.
    • BMorearty 9y ago
      A whole apartment/house does have some amenities that aren't in a decent hotel, though. Like a kitchen. Or enough beds for a group of 5. I appreciate those when traveling on a budget and/or with my family. - Airbnb employee.
      • santoshalper 9y ago
        Of course, a hotel also has some amenities that an AirBNB rental does not, like cleaning up after you. But the price difference is often large enough that I'm willing to do my own laundry.
      • wcummings 9y ago
        Extended stay hotels will offer rooms with a kitchens, and can accommodate a family of 5, maybe just not for a price you like. Just be honest and say you like it cause its cheaper and you think your vacation is more important than the needs of residents.
        • BMorearty 9y ago
          Extended stay hotels require an extended stay, don't they? It's been 45 years since I stayed in a single place for 30 days while on vacation. And please let's keep this civil.
          • troisx 9y ago
            No, extended stay places do not require an extended stay. They are just equipped to provide for an extended stay should you choose to do so.
          • 9y ago
  • santoshalper 9y ago
    Did you know hotels take up space that could be used for housing as well? It's crazy, but I looked it up and it's true. Using urban space for hotels, stores, and other amenities absolutely reduces the number of housing units thus potentially driving up prices for renters. In fact, this is a major factor in urban planning. Assuming that this is unique to AirBNB is poorly thought out.
    • extra88 9y ago
      Right, but AirBnB ignores the zoning laws that were established as part of the urban planning of cities. I think there are only a few cities, like NYC, where it creates a significant problem. Where it is a problem, laws and regulations should be enacted in response and companies like AirBnB should be cooperative.
    • dx034 9y ago
      Hotels tend to use space more efficiently. Most hotels are purpose built and maximise the number of rooms per building. If you convert residential buildings into hotels you'll end up with a less efficient use of this space.
  • AnthonyMouse 9y ago
    > Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. The argument that zoning laws reduce housing costs is backwards. The only reason people want to convert long-term housing to short-term rentals is bad zoning that has led to a shortage (and thus high prices) of short-term rentals. The solution to that, as is the solution to high housing costs in general, is to build more housing. Which is the thing zoning laws stand in the way of.
  • cvsh 9y ago
    >and the city becomes a place only for tourists and the wealthy The city is becoming a place for tourists and the wealthy because tourists and the wealthy have decided they want to live in the city. AirBnB and rising prices more broadly are an effect of this, not a cause of it. When people are willing to pay more to live somewhere, then prices there rise, and people that can't afford to pay those prices are forced to live somewhere else. You can try to fight this by fighting the symptoms, like regulating AirBnB, or like Prop 13, and while you might advantage a few grandfathered-in homeowners, you're going to end up with negative externalities that will just screw over the poor even more.
• coldtea 9y ago
  Don't know about NYC, but for one, it raises the rents, because hordes of tourists are more lucrative than locals renting long term.
  • user5994461 9y ago
    What makes you think that?
    • coldtea 9y ago
      The experience of it happening in certain places where I live. Lots of nice places are now rented in AirBnB for what amounts to their old monthly rent but now asked for for a weekly rental or less.
      • user5994461 9y ago
        That doesn't mean they are more lucrative. Property can be empty half the time and Airbnb takes a massive commission on the earnings.
        • coldtea 9y ago
          The fact that this happens, no. But the fact that they are kept that way instead of reverting to regular residential renting means that they are indeed more lucrative.
        • learc83 9y ago
          It must be more lucrative, because as this article said, Airbnb is dominated by professional landlords. If it wasn't more lucrative, those profession landlords would still be renting out long term instead of migrating to Airbnb.
          • user5994461 9y ago
            "Professional landlords" doesn't even mean anything. The landlords on AirBnb are a small fraction of all the landlords in the rental market. It's entirely possible that there is a massive churn of properties. Landlord try AirBnb a few months and revert back to long term renting because it was much hassle and not as much profitable. I for one, have noticed that.
• reza_n 9y ago
  It converts long term housing stock into short term housing, which benefits tourists with cheaper prices and increases the price for residents since both are competing for the same units. Basically, tourists are getting a free ride on the backs of residents. Its always been the other way around, tourists pay extra taxes and fees which go back to the city (and residents) and entrepreneurs build hotels which once again benefit the city (and residents). Can't think of many arguments where tourists should be given cheaper housing rights over residents.
  • anindha 9y ago
    This is spot on. Also having a hotel next door is easy to spot when you are looking for a new place. I think Airbnb is a good idea with regulation that limits the number of weeks you can rent out your place.
    • tedmiston 9y ago
      I believe this is how it works in SF already, something like one can host up to 90 days per year with them not present. I don't think there's a limit if they are present.
  • smsm42 9y ago
    I remember NY housing prices were not so friendly way before Airbnb. In fact, a number of sitcoms set in New York feature the topic prominently. Is there any data that Airbnb made the problem substantially worse?
    • user5994461 9y ago
      Housing is a disaster in every major city and price have been going up almost 10% a year for a while. AirBnb hardly has any influence on that.
      • RodericDay 9y ago
        Montreal is amazing, actually. Thanks, universally-slandered rent-control! Living in this city makes me realize how cargo-culty a lot of HN economics is.
• bradleyjg 9y ago
  All the sibling comments as of this writing are about the effects on long term rent prices. But I think the bigger issue is the effect on neighbors, especially but not exclusively, in-building neighbors. Being in a rental building that's all people with at least one year leases is different from being in a building where a third of units are hotel rooms. It'd be one thing if the landlord had chosen to have that kind of mixed building and let renters know up front. But in a lot cases it is being done without the permission of the landlord and in every case it is being done without disclosure. At the block level, living on a block with residential housing is different from living on a block with four hotels. I'm in favor of loosening zoning rules, but as long as they exist we shouldn't reward people for breaking them. Not only does that encourage other anti-social behavior it also reduces the pressure to reform the laws.
• shostack 9y ago
  The things people do when staying in an Airbnb are different than if they lived there as a resident. Case in point, I rented one once to try it out. It was supposedly non smoking. The entire place reeked of cigarettes. Upon complaining to the owner, she said she had clear rules but the previous guests had been over smoking, doing drugs, the stripper they brought over wrote all over the mirror in red lipstick, etc. Now picture a situation where you live in a building that you picked because it seemed generally safe, quiet, etc. and seemed to have a certain kind of resident that you felt comfortable living with. That all goes out the window when a significant chunk of your building becomes a nightly revolving door. I'm not going to comment on the rent or housing issues. However there are plenty of reasons why people who live somewhere might be upset to see their building turn into such a place.