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Tell me about it. Reading that made me sick. I don't necessarily agree with the original manifesto, but the idea that "a good number of the people you might hav

Tell me about it. Reading that made me sick. I don't necessarily agree with the original manifesto, but the idea that "a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face" is an acceptable thing to say is ridiculous. If this "manifesto" was actually racist and bigoted, it still doesn't excuse violence, or the suggestion of violence. That is FAR worse. It's un-American. We tolerate groups like the KKK or Black Panthers or Westboro Baptist because even if they are vehemently WRONG, they have a right to speak freely. Not to mention, one person published what they thought at risk of being ostracized by their community and workplace. The other person doesn't work at Google, has 0 real risk, and is just taking the status quo stance and presenting a holier-than-thou approach. This is all you need to see: "Either political analysis of authoritarian regimes, or interesting facts about science, depending on my mood." What this means is: Wahhhh Trump! I'm pretty moody and better than you, so I'll only discuss something if I can look good doing it or I can impress everybody.

rhapsodic 9y ago
> Tell me about it. Reading that made me sick. I don't necessarily agree with the original manifesto, but the idea that "a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face" is an acceptable thing to say is ridiculous. Agreed. Yonatan Zunger holds some very disturbing views. Google is better off being rid of him.
untog 9y ago
> We tolerate groups like the KKK or Black Panthers or Westboro Baptist because even if they are vehemently WRONG, they have a right to speak freely. We also don't hire the KKK. Those of us who run companies or manage people respect our employees more than to have a gay employee pair program with a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Free speech does not mean immunity from the consequences of your actions.
- blub 9y ago
  It's inhuman to attempt to destroy someone's life for having politically incorrect opinions, no matter what those opinions are. The employee should instead give them a warning and educate them. Writing a manifesto is not a capital crime.
  - untog 9y ago
    More or less inhumane than forcing a gay employee to work alongside someone that has publicly stated he thinks gay people should be killed? The problem is that someone has to bear a cost when opinions like this are made public.
    - ThrowawayR2 9y ago
      > More or less inhumane than forcing a gay employee to work alongside someone that has publicly stated he thinks gay people should be killed? Since the original manifesto author has advocated nothing remotely analogous to that, I would say that your attempted comparison is intellectually dishonest and places you on far more morally shaky ground than him. Moreover, if "...someone has to bear a cost when opinions like this are made public...", as you say, are you in turn willing to pay the the same cost if public opinion turns against your political views? Any behavior you legitimize to attack your political enemies becomes equally legitimate to use against you when the public mood shifts! You'd have to be bonkers to think this sort of thing is a good idea to normalize.
      - untog 9y ago
        > I would say that your attempted comparison is intellectually dishonest and places you on far more morally shaky ground than him. Maybe you should refer upthread where someone else threw out that comparison, not me? I was replying to them with the theoretical they outlined. I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post. Public moods have always shifted, and people's public responses have changed. It's already normalised. People used to be openly racist, now they aren't. Their racism then wasn't correct at the time and incorrect now, it was always wrong. Will my views become equally offensive some day? I don't see why I would assume they will. And if they do, and I don't adjust, maybe I will deserve to be called out for it.
        ThrowawayR2 9y ago
        > Will my views become equally offensive some day? I don't see why I would assume they will. And if they do, and I don't adjust, maybe I will deserve to be called out for it. It already happened before in the past and it was directed against the left. Do the names "Joe McCarthy" and the "Red Scare" of the 1950s ring a bell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism If Senator McCarthy and the Committee for Unamerican Activities had knocked on your door and condemned you for being a leftist, would you have sheepishly smiled and said (to paraphrase you own words), "Gee, Senator, maybe I do deserve to be called out for it." and quietly accepted the destruction of your life for holding a politically unpopular view? Is that truly what you are saying? I give up. I can only hope that your movement is discredited and expelled from the left before it does as much damage as McCarthy did before he was discredited.
adrienne 9y ago
Boy, you really show your true colors when you put the Black Panther Party in with the KKK and Westboro. It's pretty disgustingly racist, in fact, but that's par for the course around here.

rhapsodic 9y ago

> Tell me about it. Reading that made me sick. I don't necessarily agree with the original manifesto, but the idea that "a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face" is an acceptable thing to say is ridiculous. Agreed. Yonatan Zunger holds some very disturbing views. Google is better off being rid of him.

untog 9y ago

> We tolerate groups like the KKK or Black Panthers or Westboro Baptist because even if they are vehemently WRONG, they have a right to speak freely. We also don't hire the KKK. Those of us who run companies or manage people respect our employees more than to have a gay employee pair program with a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Free speech does not mean immunity from the consequences of your actions.

blub 9y ago
It's inhuman to attempt to destroy someone's life for having politically incorrect opinions, no matter what those opinions are. The employee should instead give them a warning and educate them. Writing a manifesto is not a capital crime.
- untog 9y ago
  More or less inhumane than forcing a gay employee to work alongside someone that has publicly stated he thinks gay people should be killed? The problem is that someone has to bear a cost when opinions like this are made public.
  - ThrowawayR2 9y ago
    > More or less inhumane than forcing a gay employee to work alongside someone that has publicly stated he thinks gay people should be killed? Since the original manifesto author has advocated nothing remotely analogous to that, I would say that your attempted comparison is intellectually dishonest and places you on far more morally shaky ground than him. Moreover, if "...someone has to bear a cost when opinions like this are made public...", as you say, are you in turn willing to pay the the same cost if public opinion turns against your political views? Any behavior you legitimize to attack your political enemies becomes equally legitimate to use against you when the public mood shifts! You'd have to be bonkers to think this sort of thing is a good idea to normalize.
    - untog 9y ago
      > I would say that your attempted comparison is intellectually dishonest and places you on far more morally shaky ground than him. Maybe you should refer upthread where someone else threw out that comparison, not me? I was replying to them with the theoretical they outlined. I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post. Public moods have always shifted, and people's public responses have changed. It's already normalised. People used to be openly racist, now they aren't. Their racism then wasn't correct at the time and incorrect now, it was always wrong. Will my views become equally offensive some day? I don't see why I would assume they will. And if they do, and I don't adjust, maybe I will deserve to be called out for it.
      - ThrowawayR2 9y ago
        > Will my views become equally offensive some day? I don't see why I would assume they will. And if they do, and I don't adjust, maybe I will deserve to be called out for it. It already happened before in the past and it was directed against the left. Do the names "Joe McCarthy" and the "Red Scare" of the 1950s ring a bell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism If Senator McCarthy and the Committee for Unamerican Activities had knocked on your door and condemned you for being a leftist, would you have sheepishly smiled and said (to paraphrase you own words), "Gee, Senator, maybe I do deserve to be called out for it." and quietly accepted the destruction of your life for holding a politically unpopular view? Is that truly what you are saying? I give up. I can only hope that your movement is discredited and expelled from the left before it does as much damage as McCarthy did before he was discredited.

adrienne 9y ago

Boy, you really show your true colors when you put the Black Panther Party in with the KKK and Westboro. It's pretty disgustingly racist, in fact, but that's par for the course around here.