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You are referring to the US situation. As a dutchie, I wouldn't even want to bike with a helmet in the US. Of course, helmets work to an extent when the conditi

You are referring to the US situation. As a dutchie, I wouldn't even want to bike with a helmet in the US. Of course, helmets work to an extent when the conditions are extremely hostile. They have (limited) value. True. The solution isn't to leave the unsafe conditions untouched and protect just a part of the body by means of a helmet, rather it is making the driving conditions for bikers safe. As it turns out, those safe conditions render the helmet as unnecesary. As pointed out, helmets could be a net loss in safety in a safe biker environment. Biker helmets are a sign of bad road safety.

rsfern 9y ago
I agree with you that having all cyclists wear helmets wouldn't strictly increase overall safety (maybe people will switch to driving...), but I think you're discounting the utility of helmets even where collisions with motorized vehicles isn't the primary risk. Here are stats from the Netherlands [0]. Looks like there are about 9000 serious crashes each year that don't involve motor vehicles, with about 2500 cases annually of head/brain injury. That's actually a much higher rate than for crashes involving cars in the Netherlands, presumably because of the infrastructure and culture.... [0]: https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/bicycle-helmets https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/bicycle-helme...
mahyarm 9y ago
Even if your the only person on a closed smooth track, you can get a pretty bad TBI injury if you crash. Wear a helmet for yourself, not because it's against the culture of where you live. Look at this guy without a helmet get one because he screwed up on a track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZz8EN_NKw&feature=youtu.be&t=508 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZz8EN_NKw&feature=youtu.be... The crash didn't look that bad, but it was enough.
- sndean 9y ago
  > Even if your the only person on a closed smooth track, you can get a pretty bad TBI injury if you crash. Yeah, or in my experience on the W&OD bike trail (largely just people on bikes), you can easily hit a rock or a deer and go sideways. It's more likely to break a collar bone than hit your head, but it's probably smart to have a helmet on.
- Fricken 9y ago
  We always go off about helmets, no one talks about learning how to wipe out. That guy didn't know how to go to the ground correctly. Getting on a skateboard or a bike without having learned how to wipeout is about as irresponsible as going into a boxing match not knowing how to dodge or block a punch. Like, if there was a match between a guy with a helmet and no boxing experience, and a guy with no helmet but plenty of boxing experience, who would you bet on? Pro skateboarders and BMXers rarely wear helmets and regularly walk away from spectacular, cringe inducing accidents that would kill or cripple a less skilled individual, and of course, they've been mastering the art of wiping out for as long as they've been riding. A friend of mine once stood on a skateboard for not even 2 seconds before it rolled out from under him, he fell back and broke his elbow, he just hadn't conditioned himself to react properly in that situation. I saw another guy on a bike go sailing over the hood of a car that cut him off, and he did a face-plant on the other side, he didn't think to tuck his head or get his arms between himself and the pavement. His face was all bloody and his front teeth were knocked out, his helmet didn't do him much good. Being able to react instinctively to something like that takes training. Strapping some styrofoam to your head is probably better than nothing, but framing bicycle safety as a binary depending on whether someone has a helmet on is a gross oversimplification. Between skateboarding, various styles of cycling, and general horsing around I've had hundreds, if not thousands of wipeouts and the only time I suffered a concussion was when I was mugged by a guy who came up behind me.
  - mahyarm 9y ago
    Most people can strap on a helmet and pay $20. Figuring how to wipe out is a entire different level that isn't that scaleable to an entire populace. Not to mention its not very enjoyable to learn unless you are in some large padded room.
  - upvotinglurker 9y ago
    >framing bicycle safety as a binary depending on whether someone has a helmet on is a gross oversimplification Who was doing that?
halostatue 9y ago
My wife’s German cousin had a low-speed fall off his bike and only avoided life-altering injury because he was wearing a helmet. Even with the helmet, he had fairly serious head trauma and it was touch-and-go. Without the helmet, everyone is pretty certain he would not have survived the fall.
vacri 9y ago
> As it turns out, those safe conditions render the helmet as unnecesary. One wonders why competitive track cyclists wear helmets, then? After all, no-one is on the track but the cyclists, all moving predictably, and they minimise the weight of everything else... so why not lose another 400 grams from their race weight?
- stordoff 9y ago
  [1] suggests that a suitably designed helmet reduces drag by a fair amount, which probably offsets the weight increase. [1] https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/7804/Thesis_fulltext.pdf https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/7804/Thes...
dahart 9y ago
Depends on where in the US you ride. Lots of cities are getting better very quickly, thankfully. There have been large changes in the last 5 years. > As pointed out, helmets could be a net loss in safety in a safe biker environment. I haven't seen any data on this yet. Do you have a source for this claim? I don't buy it. > Biker helmets are a sign of bad road safety. Bike helmets are a sign of someone who knows that the energy of impact is proportional to mass times the square of velocity. Every doubling of your speed does 4x damage if you crash. I've crashed my bike on my own probably 10x more than because of someone else. Hitting debris, riding in the rain, riding at night, unseen obstacles, railroad tracks, animals, mountain biking trails, all things that have taken me down. If I didn't have a helmet, I think I'd have cracked my own nut a long time ago, and road safety would have little to do with it. You can go without if you think it's somehow safer, I'm happy to wear mine.

rsfern 9y ago

I agree with you that having all cyclists wear helmets wouldn't strictly increase overall safety (maybe people will switch to driving...), but I think you're discounting the utility of helmets even where collisions with motorized vehicles isn't the primary risk. Here are stats from the Netherlands [0]. Looks like there are about 9000 serious crashes each year that don't involve motor vehicles, with about 2500 cases annually of head/brain injury. That's actually a much higher rate than for crashes involving cars in the Netherlands, presumably because of the infrastructure and culture.... [0]: https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/bicycle-helmets https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/bicycle-helme...

mahyarm 9y ago

Even if your the only person on a closed smooth track, you can get a pretty bad TBI injury if you crash. Wear a helmet for yourself, not because it's against the culture of where you live. Look at this guy without a helmet get one because he screwed up on a track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZz8EN_NKw&feature=youtu.be&t=508 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZz8EN_NKw&feature=youtu.be... The crash didn't look that bad, but it was enough.

sndean 9y ago
> Even if your the only person on a closed smooth track, you can get a pretty bad TBI injury if you crash. Yeah, or in my experience on the W&OD bike trail (largely just people on bikes), you can easily hit a rock or a deer and go sideways. It's more likely to break a collar bone than hit your head, but it's probably smart to have a helmet on.
Fricken 9y ago
We always go off about helmets, no one talks about learning how to wipe out. That guy didn't know how to go to the ground correctly. Getting on a skateboard or a bike without having learned how to wipeout is about as irresponsible as going into a boxing match not knowing how to dodge or block a punch. Like, if there was a match between a guy with a helmet and no boxing experience, and a guy with no helmet but plenty of boxing experience, who would you bet on? Pro skateboarders and BMXers rarely wear helmets and regularly walk away from spectacular, cringe inducing accidents that would kill or cripple a less skilled individual, and of course, they've been mastering the art of wiping out for as long as they've been riding. A friend of mine once stood on a skateboard for not even 2 seconds before it rolled out from under him, he fell back and broke his elbow, he just hadn't conditioned himself to react properly in that situation. I saw another guy on a bike go sailing over the hood of a car that cut him off, and he did a face-plant on the other side, he didn't think to tuck his head or get his arms between himself and the pavement. His face was all bloody and his front teeth were knocked out, his helmet didn't do him much good. Being able to react instinctively to something like that takes training. Strapping some styrofoam to your head is probably better than nothing, but framing bicycle safety as a binary depending on whether someone has a helmet on is a gross oversimplification. Between skateboarding, various styles of cycling, and general horsing around I've had hundreds, if not thousands of wipeouts and the only time I suffered a concussion was when I was mugged by a guy who came up behind me.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  Most people can strap on a helmet and pay $20. Figuring how to wipe out is a entire different level that isn't that scaleable to an entire populace. Not to mention its not very enjoyable to learn unless you are in some large padded room.
- upvotinglurker 9y ago
  >framing bicycle safety as a binary depending on whether someone has a helmet on is a gross oversimplification Who was doing that?

halostatue 9y ago

My wife’s German cousin had a low-speed fall off his bike and only avoided life-altering injury because he was wearing a helmet. Even with the helmet, he had fairly serious head trauma and it was touch-and-go. Without the helmet, everyone is pretty certain he would not have survived the fall.

vacri 9y ago

> As it turns out, those safe conditions render the helmet as unnecesary. One wonders why competitive track cyclists wear helmets, then? After all, no-one is on the track but the cyclists, all moving predictably, and they minimise the weight of everything else... so why not lose another 400 grams from their race weight?

stordoff 9y ago
[1] suggests that a suitably designed helmet reduces drag by a fair amount, which probably offsets the weight increase. [1] https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/7804/Thesis_fulltext.pdf https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10092/7804/Thes...

dahart 9y ago

Depends on where in the US you ride. Lots of cities are getting better very quickly, thankfully. There have been large changes in the last 5 years. > As pointed out, helmets could be a net loss in safety in a safe biker environment. I haven't seen any data on this yet. Do you have a source for this claim? I don't buy it. > Biker helmets are a sign of bad road safety. Bike helmets are a sign of someone who knows that the energy of impact is proportional to mass times the square of velocity. Every doubling of your speed does 4x damage if you crash. I've crashed my bike on my own probably 10x more than because of someone else. Hitting debris, riding in the rain, riding at night, unseen obstacles, railroad tracks, animals, mountain biking trails, all things that have taken me down. If I didn't have a helmet, I think I'd have cracked my own nut a long time ago, and road safety would have little to do with it. You can go without if you think it's somehow safer, I'm happy to wear mine.