5 ms·

> Also on the website it says it is licensed under GPL, doesn't that entitle users to source code access? What ? Why entitled ? I have some WIP and production

> Also on the website it says it is licensed under GPL, doesn't that entitle users to source code access? What ? Why entitled ? I have some WIP and production ready code in some git repo on my company's network and it's MIT licensed but there is absolutely zero obligation to upload it on the internet. Of course I don't go around making website about it so there's that. Pretty sure those guys will upload the source code when they feel like it's the time to do it.

masukomi 9y ago
the GPL requires that you make the code available WHEN you distribute it. they have distributed it, thus yes, we are entitled to it as of the time of distribution, not whenever they feel like it in the future.
- true_religion 9y ago
  Not really in the way you are implying. You can either distribute it with the binary, or you can distribute it to someone who received a binary once they request it. The GPL doesn't require you post the source on GitHub or the internet at all.
- bachmeier 9y ago
  The GPL applies to other users. There's no such thing as a license that applies to the person that wrote the code (that would imply that you could sue yourself for violations). They'd only be required to make the source available if they were using someone else's GPL code.
  - cyphar 9y ago
    That is incorrect. If a company gives you a copy of the program under the GPL, then they must obey by that license because they made an implicit agreement with you to obey that license. And you can't call any other license the GPL (modifications are not permitted by the FSF). Ultimately it does become a matter of "suing the copyright holder for a license granted by that copyright holder", but it's definitely still not okay. By that logic, no copyright license can ever be expected to be honoured by the original author -- because "they own the copyright and thus cannot be sued for breach of license". Not to mention that you don't know why they went with the GPL. Maybe they used some GPL code and thus have no choice in the license terms. So it would be a matter of the original copyright holders suing them for breach of license.
    - zokier 9y ago
      > Ultimately it does become a matter of "suing the copyright holder for a license granted by that copyright holder", but it's definitely still not okay. By that logic, no copyright license can ever be expected to be honoured by the original author -- because "they own the copyright and thus cannot be sued for breach of license". If the license promised delivery of source code then of course the author could be sued. But as far as I can tell, GPL (at least v3) makes no such promises. If you disagree, please point in the license text the part that you think applies.
      - cyphar 9y ago
        Section 6 of GPLv3 gives several options for how a purveyor must provide the source code. I haven't personally checked through the entire list and seen whether any method is provided by this project -- I'm sure someone else has the free time to go write up an email about it. My comment was responding to someone saying that even if someone gave you code they authored under GPLv3, that you couldn't expect them to honour the terms of the license. As an aside, I just noticed that the license text on their website is not a verbatim copy of the GPLv3 license text (which is not permitted). In particular, it's missing the copyright, version, date, and the epilogue that describes how to use the license for your own works.
        zokier 9y ago
        "You may convey a covered work in object code form under the terms of sections 4 and 5, provided that you also convey the machine-readable Corresponding Source under the terms of this License, in one of these ways [...]" "You" in this context meaning the licensee, not the licensor. I don't see anything in Section 6 (or elsewhere) that creates any obligations for the licensor. My naive reading of the license indicates that the licensee can redistribute ("convey") the software only if they also convey the source code. But if they are unable to do so (because the source was not conveyed to them) then they simply may not redistribute the software at all.
    - bachmeier 9y ago
      > If a company gives you a copy of the program under the GPL, then they must obey by that license because they made an implicit agreement with you to obey that license. The GPL is a set of conditions that others have to obey if they want to use your code. How can you going to sue someone for violating the copyright on code that's not yours? If you see someone selling copied Tom Clancy novels on the street, you can't sue them. Only Tom Clancy and anyone else to whom he grants the copyright. > because they made an implicit agreement with you to obey that license So Microsoft is bound by the license on MS Word?
- homarp 9y ago
  https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.en.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.en.htm... But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL. Emphasis on to the program's users. So if you downloaded it and installed it, found out there is no source folder, as a user, you are therefore "entitled" to get the source code. Just like me, write to them and ask politely for a copy of the source code.

masukomi 9y ago

the GPL requires that you make the code available WHEN you distribute it. they have distributed it, thus yes, we are entitled to it as of the time of distribution, not whenever they feel like it in the future.

true_religion 9y ago
Not really in the way you are implying. You can either distribute it with the binary, or you can distribute it to someone who received a binary once they request it. The GPL doesn't require you post the source on GitHub or the internet at all.
bachmeier 9y ago
The GPL applies to other users. There's no such thing as a license that applies to the person that wrote the code (that would imply that you could sue yourself for violations). They'd only be required to make the source available if they were using someone else's GPL code.
- cyphar 9y ago
  That is incorrect. If a company gives you a copy of the program under the GPL, then they must obey by that license because they made an implicit agreement with you to obey that license. And you can't call any other license the GPL (modifications are not permitted by the FSF). Ultimately it does become a matter of "suing the copyright holder for a license granted by that copyright holder", but it's definitely still not okay. By that logic, no copyright license can ever be expected to be honoured by the original author -- because "they own the copyright and thus cannot be sued for breach of license". Not to mention that you don't know why they went with the GPL. Maybe they used some GPL code and thus have no choice in the license terms. So it would be a matter of the original copyright holders suing them for breach of license.
  - zokier 9y ago
    > Ultimately it does become a matter of "suing the copyright holder for a license granted by that copyright holder", but it's definitely still not okay. By that logic, no copyright license can ever be expected to be honoured by the original author -- because "they own the copyright and thus cannot be sued for breach of license". If the license promised delivery of source code then of course the author could be sued. But as far as I can tell, GPL (at least v3) makes no such promises. If you disagree, please point in the license text the part that you think applies.
    - cyphar 9y ago
      Section 6 of GPLv3 gives several options for how a purveyor must provide the source code. I haven't personally checked through the entire list and seen whether any method is provided by this project -- I'm sure someone else has the free time to go write up an email about it. My comment was responding to someone saying that even if someone gave you code they authored under GPLv3, that you couldn't expect them to honour the terms of the license. As an aside, I just noticed that the license text on their website is not a verbatim copy of the GPLv3 license text (which is not permitted). In particular, it's missing the copyright, version, date, and the epilogue that describes how to use the license for your own works.
      - zokier 9y ago
        "You may convey a covered work in object code form under the terms of sections 4 and 5, provided that you also convey the machine-readable Corresponding Source under the terms of this License, in one of these ways [...]" "You" in this context meaning the licensee, not the licensor. I don't see anything in Section 6 (or elsewhere) that creates any obligations for the licensor. My naive reading of the license indicates that the licensee can redistribute ("convey") the software only if they also convey the source code. But if they are unable to do so (because the source was not conveyed to them) then they simply may not redistribute the software at all.
  - bachmeier 9y ago
    > If a company gives you a copy of the program under the GPL, then they must obey by that license because they made an implicit agreement with you to obey that license. The GPL is a set of conditions that others have to obey if they want to use your code. How can you going to sue someone for violating the copyright on code that's not yours? If you see someone selling copied Tom Clancy novels on the street, you can't sue them. Only Tom Clancy and anyone else to whom he grants the copyright. > because they made an implicit agreement with you to obey that license So Microsoft is bound by the license on MS Word?
homarp 9y ago
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.en.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.en.htm... But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL. Emphasis on to the program's users. So if you downloaded it and installed it, found out there is no source folder, as a user, you are therefore "entitled" to get the source code. Just like me, write to them and ask politely for a copy of the source code.