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I live in the Netherlands, bike everywhere I go (almost). 99.9999% of the people on the street don't wear helmets, not when commuting, not when on a recreationa

by SCHiM 9y ago

I live in the Netherlands, bike everywhere I go (almost). 99.9999% of the people on the street don't wear helmets, not when commuting, not when on a recreational drive. The most serious bicycle accident I ever saw did involve someone's head, but not a way where any helmet would have helped (his steering tube broke and sliced off half his face). I've fallen a few times, at high speeds too (rounding a corner that hasn't been de-iced ended with my hip getting closely aquatinted to the asphalt), reflexes seem to have taken care of protecting my head. I think they might offer some protecting in high speed accidents where even your body does not have time to turn your head away from the ground, but I think in those cases the chances of breaking your neck are just as high.

CydeWeys 9y ago
I think I'll take the word of experts over one person's anecdotes. The experts say that wearing a helmet helps prevent injuries. This is also not theoretical to me. I hit a big pothole last year at speed, wrecked, and broke my ankle. I was wearing a helmet and the helmet struck the pavement. My head was completely uninjured. It may not have been uninjured had I not been wearing the helmet. Saying "reflexes protect you" is seriously underestimating how much ragdolling is going on in the split seconds while you're going over the handlebars before smashing into the road or some object.
- SCHiM 9y ago
  Well I certainly did not study how much your helmets protects you... But, given the fact that, like I said, virtually everybody here cycles, I'm aware of the fact that nobody in my family ever hit their head in a way that caused any permanent damage. None of my friends ever have, none of my teachers, coworkers or anybody else I know (maybe they died before they met me?). The type of cycling I'm talking about is very close to the speed that our reflexes are evolved to deal with, I know exactly how it feels to fall of a bike and I'm not underestimating anything I'm sure. But going back to the original point: So does a helmet help prevent injuries? Yes I'm quite sure they do. Is it worth the bother to lug your helmet with you everywhere? Nope, not for me, and not for anybody else I know, including my 90 year old grandmother. We might as well wear full body armor on the sidewalks, I also think they'd prevent injury in certain cases, but most of the time it'd just be inconvenient and hot.
  - dvtv75 9y ago
    > I'm aware of the fact that nobody in my family ever hit their head in a way that caused any permanent damage. You do, of course, have professional medical assessment to back this up? Because otherwise this is simply assumption and anecdotal data presented as a fact.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    > The type of cycling I'm talking about is very close to the speed that our reflexes are evolved to deal with Yeah, well, I go a bit faster than that, whether it's commuting or fitness cycling. You have to, because you're on the street a lot of the time with fast-moving cars. Cycling in the US is a bit different than cycling is in Europe, so the safety measures you consider appropriate over there are different over here. > Is it worth the bother to lug your helmet with you everywhere? Did you read the part of my comment where I said that I always keep my helmet with my bike? I'm not lugging my helmet with me anywhere ever. It's not a bother, it's just always on my handlebars. And guess what, I also have a Citibike bikeshare membership, and sometimes I don't wear a helmet while riding that because I don't have it with me. Not having a helmet with me won't stop me from riding. By the same token, though, easily having a helmet accessible, which describes most of my riding, definitely will get me wearing it! I should also point out that >90% of all my fellow bike commuters at work, as well as >95% of the fitness cyclists I ride with, wear helmets. Not only does it just make sense as a reasonable precaution you can take (like wearing your seatbelt in a car), but I'd very much stand out if I didn't wear one.
  - vacri 9y ago
    If you want some more anecdata, then of all the people I've known, I've only known two of them to have been in a car accident where they were injured; one of them was before I was born. I guess that means that people don't die in car accidents. > We might as well wear full body armor on the sidewalks Lacerations and broken bones heal. Broken brains are generally for life.
    - CydeWeys 9y ago
      I would love to wear full body armor while cycling. It definitely would've prevented the broken ankle I suffered last year. Motorcycle boots would've prevented that. The problem is that full body armor is heavy, quite inconvenient, and you'll overheat really quickly. Plus, all of that extra mass on your feet will really make your cycling less efficient. Body armor simply isn't practical for cycling, so people don't do it except for certain specific high risk cycling activities, like stunt or downhill BMX. But a helmet isn't nearly as inconvenient as full body armor, so there are many more situations in which it makes sense to wear a helmet. For me, commuting daily in NYC traffic, it's pretty much always worth it to wear a helmet.
xapata 9y ago
A friend of mine got cut off by a minivan and his head went helmet-first into the side window. It's rare enough, but perhaps worth a little discomfort. On a group ride, the cyclist in front of me hopped over a pothole and his fork snapped on landing. In addition to getting punctured by one of the pieces, he went helmet-first into the ground. At the hospital, he couldn't remember the accident. I was glad he'd been wearing a helmet. Side note: if you're riding an aluminum bicycle, you should change the fork if it's ever had a strong impact. Hairline fractures are serious. Or just go with a steel frame, since they won't snap.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  I too have my anecdotes about myself and my friends who got into accidents and wear very glad they were wearing helmets. One friend in particular was struck by a hit-and-run driver on a suburban road and was injured quite badly; he could've died if not for his helmet.
WD-42 9y ago
I've been mountain biking for years. I've broken 2 helmets in crashes, due to hitting the ground hard. One did result in a concussion, but I was fine the other time. If it weren't for the helmet I imagine things could have been a lot worse.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  And yet, strangely enough, I've gotten into online arguments with people who argue that because the helmet broke it didn't do its job, and therefore wasn't worth wearing. This line of thought utterly escapes me. One wonders if they'd look at a modern automobile that was mangled nearly beyond recognition in a terrible wreck, but that allowed its passengers to escape with only minor injuries, and say that it didn't do its job, and that they may as well have just been standing there and been struck by a car going highway speed and turned out just the same.
notzorbo3 9y ago
I'm also a Dutchy and I'd like to clear something up. Biking in the Netherlands is not like biking almost anywhere in any other country. There are separate bike paths everywhere, cars drive slower in areas where bikes are also allowed. Bikes are first-class vehicles that cars often have to give the right of way for. People bike a lot slower at 7 to 10 mph. Drivers are accustomed to bikes being everywhere. We've also been biking our entire lives. You can see kids from the age of 4 participating in normal traffic (under parental supervision naturally). That's how safe biking in the Netherlands feels: parents let their 4 year olds bike on the same road (not a separated bike path) as cars. This is why, for Dutch people, wearing a helmet during normal daily biking instinctively feels like nonsense. And I don't know a single person from another country that, after having lived here for a bit longer, still wears their helmets here. I don't know of a single helmet study that takes such conditions into account. It's always "this many people died", but never do they mention if they were biking to the local supermarket or going 20 mph downhill in the forest on their mountainbikes without a helmet. I believe if you want to get people biking, you should invest in making biking feel as safe as it feels in the Netherlands. In the meantime, wear helmets.

by SCHiM 9y ago

CydeWeys 9y ago

I think I'll take the word of experts over one person's anecdotes. The experts say that wearing a helmet helps prevent injuries. This is also not theoretical to me. I hit a big pothole last year at speed, wrecked, and broke my ankle. I was wearing a helmet and the helmet struck the pavement. My head was completely uninjured. It may not have been uninjured had I not been wearing the helmet. Saying "reflexes protect you" is seriously underestimating how much ragdolling is going on in the split seconds while you're going over the handlebars before smashing into the road or some object.

SCHiM 9y ago
Well I certainly did not study how much your helmets protects you... But, given the fact that, like I said, virtually everybody here cycles, I'm aware of the fact that nobody in my family ever hit their head in a way that caused any permanent damage. None of my friends ever have, none of my teachers, coworkers or anybody else I know (maybe they died before they met me?). The type of cycling I'm talking about is very close to the speed that our reflexes are evolved to deal with, I know exactly how it feels to fall of a bike and I'm not underestimating anything I'm sure. But going back to the original point: So does a helmet help prevent injuries? Yes I'm quite sure they do. Is it worth the bother to lug your helmet with you everywhere? Nope, not for me, and not for anybody else I know, including my 90 year old grandmother. We might as well wear full body armor on the sidewalks, I also think they'd prevent injury in certain cases, but most of the time it'd just be inconvenient and hot.
- dvtv75 9y ago
  > I'm aware of the fact that nobody in my family ever hit their head in a way that caused any permanent damage. You do, of course, have professional medical assessment to back this up? Because otherwise this is simply assumption and anecdotal data presented as a fact.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  > The type of cycling I'm talking about is very close to the speed that our reflexes are evolved to deal with Yeah, well, I go a bit faster than that, whether it's commuting or fitness cycling. You have to, because you're on the street a lot of the time with fast-moving cars. Cycling in the US is a bit different than cycling is in Europe, so the safety measures you consider appropriate over there are different over here. > Is it worth the bother to lug your helmet with you everywhere? Did you read the part of my comment where I said that I always keep my helmet with my bike? I'm not lugging my helmet with me anywhere ever. It's not a bother, it's just always on my handlebars. And guess what, I also have a Citibike bikeshare membership, and sometimes I don't wear a helmet while riding that because I don't have it with me. Not having a helmet with me won't stop me from riding. By the same token, though, easily having a helmet accessible, which describes most of my riding, definitely will get me wearing it! I should also point out that >90% of all my fellow bike commuters at work, as well as >95% of the fitness cyclists I ride with, wear helmets. Not only does it just make sense as a reasonable precaution you can take (like wearing your seatbelt in a car), but I'd very much stand out if I didn't wear one.
- vacri 9y ago
  If you want some more anecdata, then of all the people I've known, I've only known two of them to have been in a car accident where they were injured; one of them was before I was born. I guess that means that people don't die in car accidents. > We might as well wear full body armor on the sidewalks Lacerations and broken bones heal. Broken brains are generally for life.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    I would love to wear full body armor while cycling. It definitely would've prevented the broken ankle I suffered last year. Motorcycle boots would've prevented that. The problem is that full body armor is heavy, quite inconvenient, and you'll overheat really quickly. Plus, all of that extra mass on your feet will really make your cycling less efficient. Body armor simply isn't practical for cycling, so people don't do it except for certain specific high risk cycling activities, like stunt or downhill BMX. But a helmet isn't nearly as inconvenient as full body armor, so there are many more situations in which it makes sense to wear a helmet. For me, commuting daily in NYC traffic, it's pretty much always worth it to wear a helmet.

xapata 9y ago

A friend of mine got cut off by a minivan and his head went helmet-first into the side window. It's rare enough, but perhaps worth a little discomfort. On a group ride, the cyclist in front of me hopped over a pothole and his fork snapped on landing. In addition to getting punctured by one of the pieces, he went helmet-first into the ground. At the hospital, he couldn't remember the accident. I was glad he'd been wearing a helmet. Side note: if you're riding an aluminum bicycle, you should change the fork if it's ever had a strong impact. Hairline fractures are serious. Or just go with a steel frame, since they won't snap.

CydeWeys 9y ago
I too have my anecdotes about myself and my friends who got into accidents and wear very glad they were wearing helmets. One friend in particular was struck by a hit-and-run driver on a suburban road and was injured quite badly; he could've died if not for his helmet.

WD-42 9y ago

I've been mountain biking for years. I've broken 2 helmets in crashes, due to hitting the ground hard. One did result in a concussion, but I was fine the other time. If it weren't for the helmet I imagine things could have been a lot worse.

CydeWeys 9y ago
And yet, strangely enough, I've gotten into online arguments with people who argue that because the helmet broke it didn't do its job, and therefore wasn't worth wearing. This line of thought utterly escapes me. One wonders if they'd look at a modern automobile that was mangled nearly beyond recognition in a terrible wreck, but that allowed its passengers to escape with only minor injuries, and say that it didn't do its job, and that they may as well have just been standing there and been struck by a car going highway speed and turned out just the same.

notzorbo3 9y ago

I'm also a Dutchy and I'd like to clear something up. Biking in the Netherlands is not like biking almost anywhere in any other country. There are separate bike paths everywhere, cars drive slower in areas where bikes are also allowed. Bikes are first-class vehicles that cars often have to give the right of way for. People bike a lot slower at 7 to 10 mph. Drivers are accustomed to bikes being everywhere. We've also been biking our entire lives. You can see kids from the age of 4 participating in normal traffic (under parental supervision naturally). That's how safe biking in the Netherlands feels: parents let their 4 year olds bike on the same road (not a separated bike path) as cars. This is why, for Dutch people, wearing a helmet during normal daily biking instinctively feels like nonsense. And I don't know a single person from another country that, after having lived here for a bit longer, still wears their helmets here. I don't know of a single helmet study that takes such conditions into account. It's always "this many people died", but never do they mention if they were biking to the local supermarket or going 20 mph downhill in the forest on their mountainbikes without a helmet. I believe if you want to get people biking, you should invest in making biking feel as safe as it feels in the Netherlands. In the meantime, wear helmets.