6 ms·

Would you consider Erlang to be a proven language? http://www.erlang.org/about http://www.erlang.org/about

ZenoArrow 9y ago
Erlang != Elixir. They run on the same VM, and you can reference Erlang code in Elixir but that doesn't make them equally production ready.
- hellbanner 9y ago
  Yes, I understand, I was just wondering if Erlang would be considered a "proven language". From my (limited) Erlang experience, Erlang & Elixir have the same core functionality. Elixir has a "nicer" syntax (I prefer Erlang's syntax but most devs I've talked to like Elixir's). So if Elixir isn't proven but the concurrency model & programming paradigms make sense, maybe Erlang is a good choice. * WhatsApp Scaling to 1 Billion users in erlang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs * https://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/395/ErlangandFirst-PersonShooters.pdf https://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/395/Erla...
  - hellofunk 9y ago
    Erlang has been in use for decades, so yes. For many years, and possibly still true, nearly every phone call in the world went through Erlang code. Yes it's proven.
    - thodin 9y ago
      Actually not every call, and not even a majority of calls. And most of the erlang based software available in telecom world - is far from perfect.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    > "I was just wondering if Erlang would be considered a "proven language"." Erlang is proven in production for server and telephony apps. > "From my (limited) Erlang experience, Erlang & Elixir have the same core functionality." Depends on what you mean by 'core functionality'. If you mean the functionality provided by Beam VM or OTP, then there's a case to be made for that. However, the library ecosystem for Elixir is separate from the one for Erlang. To use an alternate example, Java is definitely a 'production ready' language for enterprise software. However, if I write a new language for the JVM, it's not automatically 'production ready'. In most cases it's the library ecosystem which is under evaluation, not the platform the language runs on.
    - di4na 9y ago
      Just saying, but so far, there have been more critical bugs in erlang solved due to the Elixir community than Elixir critical bugs solved... so well...
      - erszcz 9y ago
        Can you give some examples?
  - zerr 9y ago
    As I remember WhatsApp did quite a heavy modification of Erlang/VM, i.e. not a typical/idiomatic Erlang use case I believe.
    - mercer 9y ago
      That sounds fascinating. Any sources?
      - zerr 9y ago
        It was mentioned in one of their tech talks/slides, I don't remember exactly which one.
      - hellbanner 9y ago
        I haven't watched but this would be a good guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs "Scaling with A B: Erlang and WhatsApp"
tatersolid 9y ago
No. You can't hire or rent devs that know Erlang without a multi-month search in most markets. This is a non-starter for most businesses. Train them on Erlang yourself? Why? Any possible productivity benefits offered by Erlang over a more mainstream option are dwarfed by training and hiring costs. Nobody gives a shit about hot code patching in real business systems; the telco switch architectures which demanded such features are basically bonkers and unnecessary in a packet-switched world.

Erlang != Elixir. They run on the same VM, and you can reference Erlang code in Elixir but that doesn't make them equally production ready.

hellbanner 9y ago
Yes, I understand, I was just wondering if Erlang would be considered a "proven language". From my (limited) Erlang experience, Erlang & Elixir have the same core functionality. Elixir has a "nicer" syntax (I prefer Erlang's syntax but most devs I've talked to like Elixir's). So if Elixir isn't proven but the concurrency model & programming paradigms make sense, maybe Erlang is a good choice. * WhatsApp Scaling to 1 Billion users in erlang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs * https://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/395/ErlangandFirst-PersonShooters.pdf https://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/395/Erla...
- hellofunk 9y ago
  Erlang has been in use for decades, so yes. For many years, and possibly still true, nearly every phone call in the world went through Erlang code. Yes it's proven.
  - thodin 9y ago
    Actually not every call, and not even a majority of calls. And most of the erlang based software available in telecom world - is far from perfect.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  > "I was just wondering if Erlang would be considered a "proven language"." Erlang is proven in production for server and telephony apps. > "From my (limited) Erlang experience, Erlang & Elixir have the same core functionality." Depends on what you mean by 'core functionality'. If you mean the functionality provided by Beam VM or OTP, then there's a case to be made for that. However, the library ecosystem for Elixir is separate from the one for Erlang. To use an alternate example, Java is definitely a 'production ready' language for enterprise software. However, if I write a new language for the JVM, it's not automatically 'production ready'. In most cases it's the library ecosystem which is under evaluation, not the platform the language runs on.
  - di4na 9y ago
    Just saying, but so far, there have been more critical bugs in erlang solved due to the Elixir community than Elixir critical bugs solved... so well...
    - erszcz 9y ago
      Can you give some examples?
- zerr 9y ago
  As I remember WhatsApp did quite a heavy modification of Erlang/VM, i.e. not a typical/idiomatic Erlang use case I believe.
  - mercer 9y ago
    That sounds fascinating. Any sources?
    - zerr 9y ago
      It was mentioned in one of their tech talks/slides, I don't remember exactly which one.
    - hellbanner 9y ago
      I haven't watched but this would be a good guess https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12cYAUTXXs "Scaling with A B: Erlang and WhatsApp"

tatersolid 9y ago

No. You can't hire or rent devs that know Erlang without a multi-month search in most markets. This is a non-starter for most businesses. Train them on Erlang yourself? Why? Any possible productivity benefits offered by Erlang over a more mainstream option are dwarfed by training and hiring costs. Nobody gives a shit about hot code patching in real business systems; the telco switch architectures which demanded such features are basically bonkers and unnecessary in a packet-switched world.