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>But when is an organization with clout, such as YC, going to take a stand on this issue? Given the current state of things, you could say they already have. T

>But when is an organization with clout, such as YC, going to take a stand on this issue? Given the current state of things, you could say they already have. The market has decided that younger engineers are more in demand because they are more willing to accept lower wages and longer working hours. If you can get 90% of the talent for 50% of the cost, it's just business. This holds true across many industries.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
I suppose we'll just need more government regulation (mandatory reporting of candidate interviews, hiring criteria, hiring decision justifications, etc).
- Alacart 9y ago
  The problem, I think, is that they are hiring younger for what are economic decisions, rather than decisions based around protected status. That is, they're more likely hiring young because they can get a better deal out of it (they assume), not because of age in and of itself. I don't want to see older tech workers out of work, but I also don't think it's a group that deserves anything more than any other group.
  - Powerofmene 9y ago
    Please understand what I am saying, I do not think older workers want nor deserve special treatment. They simply want a chance to be considered. If an older applicant is willing to work the hours and for the offered pay, it appears they are not even being considered along with the younger applicants. At least that has been my takeaway from the many news reports on this issue. To make a job offer based on a protected status (in short to hire a mature applicant simply because of their age) is as discriminatory as it is to exclude someone because they are an older applicant.
- Powerofmene 9y ago
  I spent too many years working for the government and I can assure you that is exactly what we do not need. Anyway, we already have that if someone wants to make a discrimination claim and they are called the EEOC. I choose to think intelligent, creative individuals can find a solution to an issue such as this rather than beat each other up. Maybe I just need to take off my rose colored glasses.
- ahallock 9y ago
  I can't tell if you're being serious, but will the costs to the taxpayer and possible unintended consequences and invariable corruption be worth it to add more layers of government to our slowly eroding free interactions? Since there are plenty of job markets outside of Silicon Valley, maybe it's good people are looking elsewhere. These markets could use the boost.
  - Powerofmene 9y ago
    There would be no additional costs as the EEOC already exists. I guess I should have asked for clarification about the seriousness of the statement that you are responding to as I assumed the individual was being somewhat sarcastic. That aside, the fact remains such a governmental body already exists. I favor self-determination and self-regulation over governmental oversight. Additionally, it is important to remember that while looking in distant job markets/industries is a good and viable alternative to being jobless in SV, not every aging tech applicant has the ability to relocate. Some people cannot relocate because they have aging parents they must care for or they may be divorced and unable to relocate because they have a shared parenting agreement that requires court approval to relocate. Some people are in the SV job market without any other options other than to leave the field.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      I'm entirely serious. Companies use secrecy and information asymmetry in order to take advantage of employees. I continue to find ways to rectify that. Self-determination is a strawman.
      - Powerofmene 9y ago
        Have an applicant file a discrimination claim based on any number of factors in hiring or an employee file a claim of discrimination based on promotions and or down-sizing and you will suddenly have the privilege of providing every metric imaginable on the applicant pool. This will include interview selection process, distribution by any number of factors, hiring justification etc. All these can and do happen currently, no addition government regulations required. For a company that is committed to fairness and compliance w non-discrimination policies, self-determination sets the standards by which compliance w company guidelines is measured. Frequently a quality assurance process verifies compliance of their specified metrics before an offer or promotion is extended. No cause for concern when as a company you are committed to fairness and ensure such through self-assessments.
Powerofmene 9y ago
YC offers the same amount of $ to each startup that it admits to its accelerator program. So your statement of "if you can get 90% of the talent for 50% of the cost" is confusing. When it comes to hiring employees, each company has to make the decisions on whom to hire and what is the basis for their decisions. I realize that some individuals, especially those with established families, are unable to work for lower wages or for long hours, I am not talking about them. I was talking only about those areas within YCs sphere of influence....those receiving seed funding and being given an opportunity to launch their startup by going through YC. Ageism in SV affects what startups are given a chance, who VCs fund, and who is employed at any tech business. It is not solely a factor that goes to an interview/offer/acceptance scenario.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

I suppose we'll just need more government regulation (mandatory reporting of candidate interviews, hiring criteria, hiring decision justifications, etc).

Alacart 9y ago
The problem, I think, is that they are hiring younger for what are economic decisions, rather than decisions based around protected status. That is, they're more likely hiring young because they can get a better deal out of it (they assume), not because of age in and of itself. I don't want to see older tech workers out of work, but I also don't think it's a group that deserves anything more than any other group.
- Powerofmene 9y ago
  Please understand what I am saying, I do not think older workers want nor deserve special treatment. They simply want a chance to be considered. If an older applicant is willing to work the hours and for the offered pay, it appears they are not even being considered along with the younger applicants. At least that has been my takeaway from the many news reports on this issue. To make a job offer based on a protected status (in short to hire a mature applicant simply because of their age) is as discriminatory as it is to exclude someone because they are an older applicant.
Powerofmene 9y ago
I spent too many years working for the government and I can assure you that is exactly what we do not need. Anyway, we already have that if someone wants to make a discrimination claim and they are called the EEOC. I choose to think intelligent, creative individuals can find a solution to an issue such as this rather than beat each other up. Maybe I just need to take off my rose colored glasses.
ahallock 9y ago
I can't tell if you're being serious, but will the costs to the taxpayer and possible unintended consequences and invariable corruption be worth it to add more layers of government to our slowly eroding free interactions? Since there are plenty of job markets outside of Silicon Valley, maybe it's good people are looking elsewhere. These markets could use the boost.
- Powerofmene 9y ago
  There would be no additional costs as the EEOC already exists. I guess I should have asked for clarification about the seriousness of the statement that you are responding to as I assumed the individual was being somewhat sarcastic. That aside, the fact remains such a governmental body already exists. I favor self-determination and self-regulation over governmental oversight. Additionally, it is important to remember that while looking in distant job markets/industries is a good and viable alternative to being jobless in SV, not every aging tech applicant has the ability to relocate. Some people cannot relocate because they have aging parents they must care for or they may be divorced and unable to relocate because they have a shared parenting agreement that requires court approval to relocate. Some people are in the SV job market without any other options other than to leave the field.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    I'm entirely serious. Companies use secrecy and information asymmetry in order to take advantage of employees. I continue to find ways to rectify that. Self-determination is a strawman.
    - Powerofmene 9y ago
      Have an applicant file a discrimination claim based on any number of factors in hiring or an employee file a claim of discrimination based on promotions and or down-sizing and you will suddenly have the privilege of providing every metric imaginable on the applicant pool. This will include interview selection process, distribution by any number of factors, hiring justification etc. All these can and do happen currently, no addition government regulations required. For a company that is committed to fairness and compliance w non-discrimination policies, self-determination sets the standards by which compliance w company guidelines is measured. Frequently a quality assurance process verifies compliance of their specified metrics before an offer or promotion is extended. No cause for concern when as a company you are committed to fairness and ensure such through self-assessments.

Powerofmene 9y ago

YC offers the same amount of $ to each startup that it admits to its accelerator program. So your statement of "if you can get 90% of the talent for 50% of the cost" is confusing. When it comes to hiring employees, each company has to make the decisions on whom to hire and what is the basis for their decisions. I realize that some individuals, especially those with established families, are unable to work for lower wages or for long hours, I am not talking about them. I was talking only about those areas within YCs sphere of influence....those receiving seed funding and being given an opportunity to launch their startup by going through YC. Ageism in SV affects what startups are given a chance, who VCs fund, and who is employed at any tech business. It is not solely a factor that goes to an interview/offer/acceptance scenario.