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They're used so consumers don't take apart their iPhones. I thought that was pretty obvious. > That's a responsibility for customers, not Apple. That's incred

They're used so consumers don't take apart their iPhones. I thought that was pretty obvious. > That's a responsibility for customers, not Apple. That's incredibly naïve. If Apple does nothing to make it hard to open up their devices, then consumers who don't know any better will decide to try and "maintain" their devices themselves (e.g. swapping the battery) and will end up breaking them. Apple has a responsibility to their customers to avoid making it easy to break their devices. And besides just protecting their customers, this also saves Apple money because they don't have to provide support to customers whose devices "just broke, no really I didn't open it up". Using custom screws is a fairly minor roadblock all things considered. It won't stop anyone who knows what they're doing, but it will prevent the average customer from trying to muck with their device and breaking it. > Apple could release the kind of documentation that would prevent customers from breaking devices when opening them up Haha no they couldn't. There's not a chance in hell that Apple could provide any sort of documentation that would prevent the average customer from destroying their device, unless that documentation simply said "DO NOT OPEN YOUR DEVICE". Apple devices are not designed with end-user repair in mind, and the only people that should be opening them up are people with expertise in disassembling electronics, not average consumers. > That should really be the choice of the customer. What choice? "Do I want to break my device, or not?" That's not a useful choice. > your neighbour pulling apart their phone is none of your business Not my business, no, but it definitely is Apple's business. Not only does Apple not want to see its customer destroy their phone, but Apple also doesn't want to have to provide support to that customer now that they've done that.

ivanbakel 9y ago
> They're used so consumers don't take apart their iPhones. I thought that was pretty obvious. What is this in response to? That's exactly what we're talking about - the use of proprietary screws to try and prevent users from opening up their devices. Nobody is debating what the choice of screwhead is for. >Using custom screws is a fairly minor roadblock all things considered. It won't stop anyone who knows what they're doing, but it will prevent the average customer from trying to muck with their device and breaking it. And yet you also state that the screw is not a real barrier. If someone is determined enough to replace their battery that they're willing to open up their phone to do it, what about the act of buying a special screwdriver online to do it is suddenly too much? It seems to me that the screws don't really help to protect against customers at all. > Apple devices are not designed with end-user repair in mind Which is the original point of contention - by designing devices which are not intended to be repaired at home, Apple takes away from the rights of its customers, with the added benefit of lining its own pockets with repair fees and replacements. The excuse of "making your device harder to repair" shouldn't be "we don't want you to repair it", if you're trying to defend on principle the idea that Apple isn't deliberately trying to hamper home repair. If they are, then there's no point continuing the original discussion - Apple's difficulty of repair doesn't come from its great design, but because they are made to be unrepairable, and Apple is guilty of all the shameful practises they're being accused of in the first place.
- eridius 9y ago
  > What is this in response to? It's a response to you saying "… and yet don't at all give a good reason for why they're used in the first place?". > It seems to me that the screws don't really help to protect against customers at all. I really don't get what you're trying to argue here. Yes, people can get around it. That doesn't mean it does nothing. It's a deterrent. > Which is the original point of contention - by designing devices which are not intended to be repaired at home, Apple takes away from the rights of its customers, with the added benefit of lining its own pockets with repair fees and replacements. Are you kidding? Or do you really believe that Apple is making money off repairs? Repairing devices is not a profit center for Apple. I'm sure they try to also make it not a cost center, but Apple is not maliciously forcing people to get repairs through them out of a desire for money. To Apple, the ideal device is one that never needs repairs. Hell, Apple is literally famous for giving out free out-of-warrantee repairs to people. How does that match up with your claim that they're trying to line their pockets? > if you're trying to defend on principle the idea that Apple isn't deliberately trying to hamper home repair. What? No, of course Apple is deliberately trying to hamper home repair. I don't see how you could have read my comments and got the idea that Apple wasn't trying to do that. In fact, my central point about the screws is Apple's trying to deter people from repairing devices at home. They're not making it impossible (in fact, they're not even making it particularly hard), but they are definitely trying to encourage people not to attempt home repair. > If they are, then there's no point continuing the original discussion - Apple's difficulty of repair doesn't come from its great design, but because they are made to be unrepairable, and Apple is guilty of all the shameful practises they're being accused of in the first place. This is complete bullshit. Apple does not design their devices to be unrepairable. They just don't design them to be repairable. Unfortunately, designing devices to be small, not waste any space whatsoever, and get the best battery life and performance possible, also has a tendency to make the device hard to repair, because components are placed in such a way as to maximize the aforementioned goals rather than to be accessible for repair. This also leads to things like soldering components so you can avoid mounting brackets (and this probably also makes repair less likely, because the soldered component won't come unseated), which is a far bigger issue for repairability than the damn screws you're obsessed with.
  - 9y ago

ivanbakel 9y ago

> They're used so consumers don't take apart their iPhones. I thought that was pretty obvious. What is this in response to? That's exactly what we're talking about - the use of proprietary screws to try and prevent users from opening up their devices. Nobody is debating what the choice of screwhead is for. >Using custom screws is a fairly minor roadblock all things considered. It won't stop anyone who knows what they're doing, but it will prevent the average customer from trying to muck with their device and breaking it. And yet you also state that the screw is not a real barrier. If someone is determined enough to replace their battery that they're willing to open up their phone to do it, what about the act of buying a special screwdriver online to do it is suddenly too much? It seems to me that the screws don't really help to protect against customers at all. > Apple devices are not designed with end-user repair in mind Which is the original point of contention - by designing devices which are not intended to be repaired at home, Apple takes away from the rights of its customers, with the added benefit of lining its own pockets with repair fees and replacements. The excuse of "making your device harder to repair" shouldn't be "we don't want you to repair it", if you're trying to defend on principle the idea that Apple isn't deliberately trying to hamper home repair. If they are, then there's no point continuing the original discussion - Apple's difficulty of repair doesn't come from its great design, but because they are made to be unrepairable, and Apple is guilty of all the shameful practises they're being accused of in the first place.

eridius 9y ago
> What is this in response to? It's a response to you saying "… and yet don't at all give a good reason for why they're used in the first place?". > It seems to me that the screws don't really help to protect against customers at all. I really don't get what you're trying to argue here. Yes, people can get around it. That doesn't mean it does nothing. It's a deterrent. > Which is the original point of contention - by designing devices which are not intended to be repaired at home, Apple takes away from the rights of its customers, with the added benefit of lining its own pockets with repair fees and replacements. Are you kidding? Or do you really believe that Apple is making money off repairs? Repairing devices is not a profit center for Apple. I'm sure they try to also make it not a cost center, but Apple is not maliciously forcing people to get repairs through them out of a desire for money. To Apple, the ideal device is one that never needs repairs. Hell, Apple is literally famous for giving out free out-of-warrantee repairs to people. How does that match up with your claim that they're trying to line their pockets? > if you're trying to defend on principle the idea that Apple isn't deliberately trying to hamper home repair. What? No, of course Apple is deliberately trying to hamper home repair. I don't see how you could have read my comments and got the idea that Apple wasn't trying to do that. In fact, my central point about the screws is Apple's trying to deter people from repairing devices at home. They're not making it impossible (in fact, they're not even making it particularly hard), but they are definitely trying to encourage people not to attempt home repair. > If they are, then there's no point continuing the original discussion - Apple's difficulty of repair doesn't come from its great design, but because they are made to be unrepairable, and Apple is guilty of all the shameful practises they're being accused of in the first place. This is complete bullshit. Apple does not design their devices to be unrepairable. They just don't design them to be repairable. Unfortunately, designing devices to be small, not waste any space whatsoever, and get the best battery life and performance possible, also has a tendency to make the device hard to repair, because components are placed in such a way as to maximize the aforementioned goals rather than to be accessible for repair. This also leads to things like soldering components so you can avoid mounting brackets (and this probably also makes repair less likely, because the soldered component won't come unseated), which is a far bigger issue for repairability than the damn screws you're obsessed with.
- 9y ago