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I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

moxious 9y ago
"Charming and unbelievably intelligent" are definitely fair descriptors for this man, just please bear in mind that these terms probably describe many other people who are also guilty of fraud. Sure he has his side. And yes he's probably been treated unfairly by the press. And no, he isn't guilty of all of the things people say. And yet none of that makes him actually innocent.
- amyjess 9y ago
  To add, I would argue that "charming and unbelievably intelligent" are prerequisites to being a truly great fraudster. - Charm: a lot of people don't realize this, but the "con" in "con man" is short for "confidence". They work by abusing and exploiting people's confidence in them. A con man has to have enough charm to get people to place their confidence in him, or the scheme isn't going to work. - Intelligence: fraud isn't something you can pull off by brute strength. You need a sharp mind to plan a scheme and carry it out. If a con man wasn't "charming and unbelievable intelligent", I'd doubt his efficacy as a con man. And I'll also add that "charming and unbelievable intelligent" is a good way to describe a number of serial killers. Charm and intelligence doesn't a good person make.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  It's funny how incredibly susceptible HN seems to be to the smooth talkers. Yeah, I know this person is technically being charged with being a Russian double agent and committing treason, but he just seems so down to earth, relatable, and smart! Swoon!
  - hitekker 9y ago
    It certainly doesn't help that we, especially here on HN, conflate intelligence and morality. "Ah this guy is smart, so he must be a good person!" or "this person is bad, well he must be an idiot!" I'd argue, this mental shortcut stems from the way we view ourselves: "I know I'm smart, but I don't know if I'm good, so I'll just set $smartness = $goodness so I no longer have to worry!"
s73ver 9y ago
He can be both charming and intelligent, and a complete douchebag at the same time.
- moxious 9y ago
  Yes, hat was rather my point, I guess I was just trying to put it more delicately
CydeWeys 9y ago
The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.
- joering2 9y ago
  The outrageous fact that police officer pulled over drunk driver and his license got suspended for six months for DUI caused said driver to commit suicide because he couldn't get to work anymore and as a result - he couldn't support his family. What a horrible police officer right? There is no coming back from this... In all seriousness I have a hard time blaming investor who had all rights to raise the price of his own product for whatever the fuck reason he wanted to, in a democratic society and on the free market that USA supposed to be. And thenof course then there is EpiPen.
- purplerabbit 9y ago
  Do you have evidence of this happening? Shkreli said publicly that if anyone couldn't afford his pricey drug he'd ensure that they got it. I have no idea whether he ever followed through.
  - orblivion 9y ago
    BTW it's common for drug companies to do this: * https://www.medicare.gov/pharmaceutical-assistance-program/ https://www.medicare.gov/pharmaceutical-assistance-program/ * https://www.astrazeneca-us.com/medicines/Affordability.html https://www.astrazeneca-us.com/medicines/Affordability.html * http://www.pfizerrxpathways.com/ http://www.pfizerrxpathways.com/
- baakss 9y ago
  >The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. Who died? I'm curious because if that happened, I figure we would have heard about it. Do you have a link to a story I can read?
- shocka98 9y ago
enraged_camel 9y ago
It is very common for "psychopaths" to play charming. That is one of many ways in which they manipulate others because it makes the victims lower their defenses.
aaronbrethorst 9y ago
Lots of sociopaths are charming. Fun article: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxb4m/charming-manipulative-fantastic-in-bed-and-a-compulsive-liar-maybe-hes-a-sociopath-235 https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxb4m/charming-manipulat...
pishpash 9y ago
These are words you'd use to describe any successful con man.
dghughes 9y ago
>I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent. Isn't that part of why people claim he is a psychopath? Smart, lack of empathy, easily gains people's trust, and charm all bang on for traits for psychopathy.
- PeCaN 9y ago
  I have a hard time psychopaths are quite as… blunt, frankly. He pumps a lot of money into medicine research. He gave away drugs for free to people who couldn't afford it. Neither seem particularly likely for a psychopath, and even if they are, then it's a psychopath having a net positive impact. He is, largely, just a regular but intelligent asshole. I'm getting kinda tired of seeing "charismatic, smart, has money" == "psychopath" lately.
chickenfries 9y ago
That Vice piece felt like great PR for him, so much that I was very suspect of my feelings of sympathy towards him.

moxious 9y ago

"Charming and unbelievably intelligent" are definitely fair descriptors for this man, just please bear in mind that these terms probably describe many other people who are also guilty of fraud. Sure he has his side. And yes he's probably been treated unfairly by the press. And no, he isn't guilty of all of the things people say. And yet none of that makes him actually innocent.

amyjess 9y ago
To add, I would argue that "charming and unbelievably intelligent" are prerequisites to being a truly great fraudster. - Charm: a lot of people don't realize this, but the "con" in "con man" is short for "confidence". They work by abusing and exploiting people's confidence in them. A con man has to have enough charm to get people to place their confidence in him, or the scheme isn't going to work. - Intelligence: fraud isn't something you can pull off by brute strength. You need a sharp mind to plan a scheme and carry it out. If a con man wasn't "charming and unbelievable intelligent", I'd doubt his efficacy as a con man. And I'll also add that "charming and unbelievable intelligent" is a good way to describe a number of serial killers. Charm and intelligence doesn't a good person make.
sliverstorm 9y ago
It's funny how incredibly susceptible HN seems to be to the smooth talkers. Yeah, I know this person is technically being charged with being a Russian double agent and committing treason, but he just seems so down to earth, relatable, and smart! Swoon!
- hitekker 9y ago
  It certainly doesn't help that we, especially here on HN, conflate intelligence and morality. "Ah this guy is smart, so he must be a good person!" or "this person is bad, well he must be an idiot!" I'd argue, this mental shortcut stems from the way we view ourselves: "I know I'm smart, but I don't know if I'm good, so I'll just set $smartness = $goodness so I no longer have to worry!"

s73ver 9y ago

He can be both charming and intelligent, and a complete douchebag at the same time.

moxious 9y ago
Yes, hat was rather my point, I guess I was just trying to put it more delicately

CydeWeys 9y ago

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

joering2 9y ago
The outrageous fact that police officer pulled over drunk driver and his license got suspended for six months for DUI caused said driver to commit suicide because he couldn't get to work anymore and as a result - he couldn't support his family. What a horrible police officer right? There is no coming back from this... In all seriousness I have a hard time blaming investor who had all rights to raise the price of his own product for whatever the fuck reason he wanted to, in a democratic society and on the free market that USA supposed to be. And thenof course then there is EpiPen.
purplerabbit 9y ago
Do you have evidence of this happening? Shkreli said publicly that if anyone couldn't afford his pricey drug he'd ensure that they got it. I have no idea whether he ever followed through.
- orblivion 9y ago
  BTW it's common for drug companies to do this: * https://www.medicare.gov/pharmaceutical-assistance-program/ https://www.medicare.gov/pharmaceutical-assistance-program/ * https://www.astrazeneca-us.com/medicines/Affordability.html https://www.astrazeneca-us.com/medicines/Affordability.html * http://www.pfizerrxpathways.com/ http://www.pfizerrxpathways.com/
baakss 9y ago
>The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. Who died? I'm curious because if that happened, I figure we would have heard about it. Do you have a link to a story I can read?
shocka98 9y ago

enraged_camel 9y ago

It is very common for "psychopaths" to play charming. That is one of many ways in which they manipulate others because it makes the victims lower their defenses.

aaronbrethorst 9y ago

Lots of sociopaths are charming. Fun article: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxb4m/charming-manipulative-fantastic-in-bed-and-a-compulsive-liar-maybe-hes-a-sociopath-235 https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxb4m/charming-manipulat...

pishpash 9y ago

These are words you'd use to describe any successful con man.

dghughes 9y ago

>I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent. Isn't that part of why people claim he is a psychopath? Smart, lack of empathy, easily gains people's trust, and charm all bang on for traits for psychopathy.

PeCaN 9y ago
I have a hard time psychopaths are quite as… blunt, frankly. He pumps a lot of money into medicine research. He gave away drugs for free to people who couldn't afford it. Neither seem particularly likely for a psychopath, and even if they are, then it's a psychopath having a net positive impact. He is, largely, just a regular but intelligent asshole. I'm getting kinda tired of seeing "charismatic, smart, has money" == "psychopath" lately.

chickenfries 9y ago

That Vice piece felt like great PR for him, so much that I was very suspect of my feelings of sympathy towards him.