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> it's very difficult to learn Clojure if you don't at least know Java I'm curious why you think this is. As I've noted elsewhere in this thread, I've never wr

> it's very difficult to learn Clojure if you don't at least know Java I'm curious why you think this is. As I've noted elsewhere in this thread, I've never written a line of Java in my life, and have worked as a Clojure dev since 2014. I also never write any code that interoperates with Java. Seems to be a very common misconception that you must know Java to use Clojure.

KirinDave 9y ago
> I'm curious why you think this is. As I've noted elsewhere in this thread, I've never written a line of Java in my life, and have worked as a Clojure dev since 2014. I also never write any code that interoperates with Java. You're quite fortunate, but I was not. In fact, the reason I choose clojure at Level's primary language was for Java interop with the fintech world. In many cases if you want performant code that doesn't leak resources, you will need to appeal to at the very least java.util.concurrent. Clojure doesn't even really try to fill the gaps there. And even if you do, a working knowledge of the JVM, java compilation, and build/deploy tooling is quite helpful. There is only so much lein can abstract for you.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
The very first thing I needed to do in Clojure was to deal with JWTs, which required using its Java interop. Decoding error messages sent me digging into the Java library's documentation. It wasn't hard per se, and I didn't know Java, but I do see the disruption of my Clojure "flow" when I have to deal with Java interop as a big reason I'm not more of a proponent of the language.
- hellofunk 9y ago
  I personally do not like the experience of interop in any language, or using FFIs. Perhaps that is why on any project I've had, I make sure to use high-level Clojure libraries that handle all the interop for me. So far, after nearly 4 years, that has not been a problem. But then again, all my projects have been raw Clojure from the start, and never projects where I had to deal with an existing Java code base or handle internal Java APIs at a company, etc. If you approach Clojure for a fresh project with the plan that it will just be a Clojure project, as I have, you will rarely if ever need to know a thing about Java. This is slightly less true for ClojureScript where some knowledge of JS can come in handy if you want to use JS libraries (which nearly all front-end developers eventually require). But even there, most needs are already wrapped up in Clojure libraries.

KirinDave 9y ago

> I'm curious why you think this is. As I've noted elsewhere in this thread, I've never written a line of Java in my life, and have worked as a Clojure dev since 2014. I also never write any code that interoperates with Java. You're quite fortunate, but I was not. In fact, the reason I choose clojure at Level's primary language was for Java interop with the fintech world. In many cases if you want performant code that doesn't leak resources, you will need to appeal to at the very least java.util.concurrent. Clojure doesn't even really try to fill the gaps there. And even if you do, a working knowledge of the JVM, java compilation, and build/deploy tooling is quite helpful. There is only so much lein can abstract for you.

LyndsySimon 9y ago

The very first thing I needed to do in Clojure was to deal with JWTs, which required using its Java interop. Decoding error messages sent me digging into the Java library's documentation. It wasn't hard per se, and I didn't know Java, but I do see the disruption of my Clojure "flow" when I have to deal with Java interop as a big reason I'm not more of a proponent of the language.

hellofunk 9y ago
I personally do not like the experience of interop in any language, or using FFIs. Perhaps that is why on any project I've had, I make sure to use high-level Clojure libraries that handle all the interop for me. So far, after nearly 4 years, that has not been a problem. But then again, all my projects have been raw Clojure from the start, and never projects where I had to deal with an existing Java code base or handle internal Java APIs at a company, etc. If you approach Clojure for a fresh project with the plan that it will just be a Clojure project, as I have, you will rarely if ever need to know a thing about Java. This is slightly less true for ClojureScript where some knowledge of JS can come in handy if you want to use JS libraries (which nearly all front-end developers eventually require). But even there, most needs are already wrapped up in Clojure libraries.