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I realize that many people who frequent HN are quite grumped about wakemate (and perhaps rightfully so). Nonetheless, its worth pointing out that designing and

I realize that many people who frequent HN are quite grumped about wakemate (and perhaps rightfully so). Nonetheless, its worth pointing out that designing and then manufacturing an electronic gadget (as a single end to end process) is in many ways orders of magnitude more difficult than shipping a webapp that works on a post IE6 web browser. Theres perhaps certain regulatory elements that need to be dealt with, as well as liability issues that just don't happen with normal software, and thats ignoring quality control issues in manufacturing. Moreover, somehow amidst being busy with all this (and perhaps wanting to actually ship both so that theres no CA suit from those who pre-ordered, as well actually having a product with sales), they're doing a pretty good job about being open about hiccups along the way, and to in a relatively timely fashion respond to most nice email requests. Pray tell hn, how many companies discussed on hn are open about the end to end design process for some physical product? I can't think of many myself, and I'd actually really like/enjoy it if once they're comfortably got v1 shipping, that they take the time to write some more elaborated posts documenting their whole design through to final manufacturing or something like that. just my $.02

rodh257 16y ago
yeah I have no problems waiting, I'd imagine it would be very difficult. I do think they should clarify what they mean by saying they didn't take anyones money though. Unnecessary statement and one that can be disputed given everyone paid $5 deposit.
blackguardx 16y ago
It probably would have been better for them to build all the initial units themselves while they ramp up the outsourced manufacturing. Stuffing boards and soldering isn't too hard while outsourcing is never easy.
- clewiston 16y ago
  the surface mount packages we use for the chip components on the WakeMate are a little difficult to solder by hand, unfortunately.
  - drewcrawford 16y ago
    That may be true, but experienced people can solder surface mounts. I do it all the time. It may be a little more costly, but you know what they say, undercommit & overdeliver.
    - jackowayed 16y ago
      It sounded like they were planning to do something closer to that, but the higher-than-expected demand made that not a viable option: from http://blog.wakemate.com/2010/04/26/questions-answered/ http://blog.wakemate.com/2010/04/26/questions-answered/ >As previously stated, we misjudged demand for this product. Having too many people wanting to buy your product is a good problem to have, but it’s still a problem. Our original method for assembling and shipping devices simply wasn’t scalable in terms of cost and time. It was no longer good enough to get easily accessible parts, buy a few hundred or a thousand of them, and pay somebody to assemble them; time and expense would be too much.
      - drewcrawford 16y ago
        But <20% of the preorders paid $5 for the product (source: OP). Couldn't they have assembled at least those and shipped them out by now? Or, to state it another way, didn't they wake up one morning and realize they had enough preorders? It would be a lot easier to convert the preorder form to "Sign up for more info when we have more units available!" than to convert it to GCheckout, another way of preordering, which is what they did.
    - tdavis 16y ago
      I'm confident that Craig could have spent all his time soldering, but then we'd have a far inferior product right now. Obviously the initial delivery estimates were way off but we have a much better product for Craig's efforts sans soldering.
    - clewiston 16y ago
      don't get me wrong...I am proud of my ability to solder surface mount chips by hand. that said, certain SMT packages (FBGAs, LGAs) are pretty much impossible to solder by hand with a conventional iron.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
ojbyrne 16y ago
The implication being that its not orders of magnitude more difficult than shipping a web application that works with IE6. Don't I know.
jackowayed 16y ago
It doesn't help that they have an uncanny ability to piss people off with every major blog post. They haven't even reached their first major shipment yet, but already: * They told people in January that shipping Q1 actually meant shipping July 31st. * They mentioned "premium analytics" or the like and gave everyone fears of having to tack a monthly fee on top of the $50 they had committed to paying for their devices. * They said that they haven't taken any money from customers yet when they actually have. None of those are really that bad on their own, but the fact that they've had 3 of these gaffs before the first major shipment understandably gives some people doubt.
- bugmenot 16y ago
  * They say that all phones will be supported, then reverse that after they accept pre-orders * They say add "special" features to the iPhone app and immediately alienate everyone else
tdavis 16y ago
Thanks for the kind words! Documentation of the whole process is underway, including the lessons-learned along the way. "WakeMate: Origins" is a vast undertaking and I've only been here since January. The original founders have even more stories.
- michaelfairley 16y ago
  This is another example of a thing done wrong: we want to hear that you're working on the product, not a book about it.
  - tdavis 16y ago
    Somebody wrote up a few paragraphs; it was mostly a joke. The link you're commenting on gave information on said product work so I don't really understand the hostility.
ahoyhere 16y ago
Didn't they send an email that said "WakeMates are shipping!" months ago? They're not open about their process, they're "open" - which means they call themselves open, while not actually telling us anything. Or, you know, telling us lies.

rodh257 16y ago

yeah I have no problems waiting, I'd imagine it would be very difficult. I do think they should clarify what they mean by saying they didn't take anyones money though. Unnecessary statement and one that can be disputed given everyone paid $5 deposit.

blackguardx 16y ago

It probably would have been better for them to build all the initial units themselves while they ramp up the outsourced manufacturing. Stuffing boards and soldering isn't too hard while outsourcing is never easy.

clewiston 16y ago
the surface mount packages we use for the chip components on the WakeMate are a little difficult to solder by hand, unfortunately.
- drewcrawford 16y ago
  That may be true, but experienced people can solder surface mounts. I do it all the time. It may be a little more costly, but you know what they say, undercommit & overdeliver.
  - jackowayed 16y ago
    It sounded like they were planning to do something closer to that, but the higher-than-expected demand made that not a viable option: from http://blog.wakemate.com/2010/04/26/questions-answered/ http://blog.wakemate.com/2010/04/26/questions-answered/ >As previously stated, we misjudged demand for this product. Having too many people wanting to buy your product is a good problem to have, but it’s still a problem. Our original method for assembling and shipping devices simply wasn’t scalable in terms of cost and time. It was no longer good enough to get easily accessible parts, buy a few hundred or a thousand of them, and pay somebody to assemble them; time and expense would be too much.
    - drewcrawford 16y ago
      But <20% of the preorders paid $5 for the product (source: OP). Couldn't they have assembled at least those and shipped them out by now? Or, to state it another way, didn't they wake up one morning and realize they had enough preorders? It would be a lot easier to convert the preorder form to "Sign up for more info when we have more units available!" than to convert it to GCheckout, another way of preordering, which is what they did.
  - tdavis 16y ago
    I'm confident that Craig could have spent all his time soldering, but then we'd have a far inferior product right now. Obviously the initial delivery estimates were way off but we have a much better product for Craig's efforts sans soldering.
  - clewiston 16y ago
    don't get me wrong...I am proud of my ability to solder surface mount chips by hand. that said, certain SMT packages (FBGAs, LGAs) are pretty much impossible to solder by hand with a conventional iron.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

ojbyrne 16y ago

The implication being that its not orders of magnitude more difficult than shipping a web application that works with IE6. Don't I know.

jackowayed 16y ago

It doesn't help that they have an uncanny ability to piss people off with every major blog post. They haven't even reached their first major shipment yet, but already: * They told people in January that shipping Q1 actually meant shipping July 31st. * They mentioned "premium analytics" or the like and gave everyone fears of having to tack a monthly fee on top of the $50 they had committed to paying for their devices. * They said that they haven't taken any money from customers yet when they actually have. None of those are really that bad on their own, but the fact that they've had 3 of these gaffs before the first major shipment understandably gives some people doubt.

bugmenot 16y ago
* They say that all phones will be supported, then reverse that after they accept pre-orders * They say add "special" features to the iPhone app and immediately alienate everyone else

tdavis 16y ago

Thanks for the kind words! Documentation of the whole process is underway, including the lessons-learned along the way. "WakeMate: Origins" is a vast undertaking and I've only been here since January. The original founders have even more stories.

michaelfairley 16y ago
This is another example of a thing done wrong: we want to hear that you're working on the product, not a book about it.
- tdavis 16y ago
  Somebody wrote up a few paragraphs; it was mostly a joke. The link you're commenting on gave information on said product work so I don't really understand the hostility.

ahoyhere 16y ago

Didn't they send an email that said "WakeMates are shipping!" months ago? They're not open about their process, they're "open" - which means they call themselves open, while not actually telling us anything. Or, you know, telling us lies.