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Does anyone have information as to how the party leadership in China manages to pass off what's happening in China as "Communism"? I don't understand how the le

by ue_ 9y ago

Does anyone have information as to how the party leadership in China manages to pass off what's happening in China as "Communism"? I don't understand how the leadership which calls itself Communist while encouraging wage labour, private property, money and capitalist organisations can pretend to be in any way defending Communism, using chatbots or not. So how is it done? Do they say "Socialism is what's happening in China, full stop" (which is false and ahistorical) or do they say "China is not yet a Socialist society, full stop" (which would seem to contradict their goal of being a Communist leadership)?

guywhocodes 9y ago
Currently in China, the locals don't really look upward, it's an unchangeable fact that they have a corrupt dictatorship. Instead they look around them and try to cheat each other because they think that is the only way to get the head. I'm not sure they actually know much about what communism actually is. I'm sure they were taught something though
- Markoff 9y ago
  that's just not truth that they don't look upward, plenty of officials got into trouble when people complained about them online
smitherfield 9y ago
I’m not Chinese, but I believe the more orthodox Marxists in the Party argue China needs to reach the capitalist stage of development before it’s able to achieve communism (same justification as Lenin’s for the NEP), while the “right” of the Party prefer Third Way type rhetoric of capitalism harnessed to support a welfare state. The phrase “socialism with Chinese characteristics” was common in their domestic propaganda in the 00’s; I’m not sure whether it still is.
- ue_ 9y ago
  Interesting, that makes sense, though of course I don't agree with either subset of the party; China has (almost?) entirely progressed to the capitalist mode of production, and if anything I believe that in China of all places the distinction between proletarian and bourgeois is most developed. It seems to me from the outside as though China has wholly abandoned the Communist cause in a less obvious way than North Korea has. I'm about to start reading Badiou on the "Communist Hypothesis". It is clear the modern Marxists and Communists in general need to develop their praxis, or I am unaware of the modern developments.
Markoff 9y ago
they don't really call it any name, what's delivered it's that CCP is irreplaceable and that China and CCP are synonyms you can't love China and dislike CCP

by ue_ 9y ago

guywhocodes 9y ago

Currently in China, the locals don't really look upward, it's an unchangeable fact that they have a corrupt dictatorship. Instead they look around them and try to cheat each other because they think that is the only way to get the head. I'm not sure they actually know much about what communism actually is. I'm sure they were taught something though

Markoff 9y ago
that's just not truth that they don't look upward, plenty of officials got into trouble when people complained about them online

smitherfield 9y ago

I’m not Chinese, but I believe the more orthodox Marxists in the Party argue China needs to reach the capitalist stage of development before it’s able to achieve communism (same justification as Lenin’s for the NEP), while the “right” of the Party prefer Third Way type rhetoric of capitalism harnessed to support a welfare state. The phrase “socialism with Chinese characteristics” was common in their domestic propaganda in the 00’s; I’m not sure whether it still is.

ue_ 9y ago
Interesting, that makes sense, though of course I don't agree with either subset of the party; China has (almost?) entirely progressed to the capitalist mode of production, and if anything I believe that in China of all places the distinction between proletarian and bourgeois is most developed. It seems to me from the outside as though China has wholly abandoned the Communist cause in a less obvious way than North Korea has. I'm about to start reading Badiou on the "Communist Hypothesis". It is clear the modern Marxists and Communists in general need to develop their praxis, or I am unaware of the modern developments.

Markoff 9y ago

they don't really call it any name, what's delivered it's that CCP is irreplaceable and that China and CCP are synonyms you can't love China and dislike CCP