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Apple got the fundamentals correct from the beginning and I've always been mystified by the hot takes claiming it was a failure. It's designed with security in

by IBM 9y ago

Apple got the fundamentals correct from the beginning and I've always been mystified by the hot takes claiming it was a failure. It's designed with security in mind, so your HomeKit fridge isn't going to take part in a DDOS attack [1], and it doesn't require an internet connection. Some people viewed this as the same ol' Apple focused on devices while the world moves on to cloud services, but it turns out that's a big advantage too [2]. [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/10/double-dip-internet-of-things-botnet-attack-felt-across-the-internet/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/10/doubl... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/nest-thermostats-go-down-2016-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/nest-thermostats-go-down-2016...

Shank 9y ago
For me, the details matter. HomeKit means that Siri can answer a question like "Are my lights on?" whereas the Amazon Echo can only send commands like "turn off" or "turn on" (with no knowledge of system state) to my lights. It's a very minor detail, but it makes me appreciate the HomeKit protocol that much more.
- watty 9y ago
  I don't follow. I just tested with my Google Home and it correctly told me my Coffee Maker was "off". Is this just a limitation of Echo?
  - supergeek133 9y ago
    Might depend on the light maker and how they maintain their Skills/Actions. It was a quick add to development after initial release.
  - robterrell 9y ago
    Can you trick the Google Home by turning the coffee maker on yourself? i.e. is it just remembering the last state it set, or is it able to query a device for current state?
    - EddieRingle 9y ago
      I don't have a coffee maker, but I just tried this with my Philips Hue lights and it was able to get the right state even after I turned the lights off manually through the Hue app.
      - cbhl 9y ago
        Try: 1) turn off a light in the app 2) physically disconnect and reconnect power to a light (e.g. unplug and plug in) 3) note that light is on by default (at least for Hue lightstrips, not sure about others) 4) note that you cannot turn the light off without turning it on in the app
        vmarsy 9y ago
        3) is true with all hue lights, so that you can easily override using the good old physical switches. However, are you sure about 4? I had power outages sometimes, when the power comes back, all the hue lights gets on (Not cool when it's 4 am by the way), but then I'd just press "Off" on my hue light app and they'd all turn off. If I remember the Hue API, you can send a new state to the lights not matter what the previous state was, so I'm not surprised this works correctly, which is why I'm confused about your step 4). Are you trying to turn them off via a Echo command specifically?
        TeMPOraL 9y ago
        I'm using my own CLI script to control Hue lights[0] and I confirm that you can set the state of your lights directly, without referring to or even knowing the previous one. The API is pretty straightforward. I suspect that even the vanilla Hue app on Android does that - given the way I often manage to switch the lights before the app UI figures out what's their current state. -- [0] - https://github.com/TeMPOraL/hju https://github.com/TeMPOraL/hju
        op00to 9y ago
        This is not true with my Hue light bulbs on iOS. I can do those steps and turn the bulb off in both the Hue app as well as via HomeKit.
  - Shank 9y ago
    It could be. Most of the time I notice it with the hue light system and telling lights to turn "off" or "on." Because the Echo can't get state or maybe doesn't implement it, it frequently says "okay" but fails to do the action. I can only assume this is because it mishears "off" and "on" and it has no way of inferring that I mean "the inverse of whatever state it is."
Semiapies 9y ago
Failure is a safe hot take, because most things fail. It's the cold reading of tech news or business news.
Bartweiss 9y ago
I'm not really convinced they got the fundamentals correct in the beginning, though. From a designer's perspective, the hardware requirement alone is a fatal error - it's a totally unacceptable level of initial lock-in and expense. Fixing that actually looks like a major change to the merits of the device.
- derefr 9y ago
  Fundamentals from the perspective of a consumer: if you buy a HomeKit-certified device, you'll be getting something pretty good. There might not be any HomeKit-certified devices because the development process is/was onerous, but that's a separate question from what consumers get in the end from the devices that do make it through that obstacle course.
  - Bartweiss 9y ago
    Yeah, agreed. The one other issue, though, is that I think it's wrong to evaluate the quality of each device in isolation. From Apple's viewpoint HomeKit will be a success iff there are a wide range of quality products for it. They're trying to sit at the center of an ecosystem, and that means not just offering quality but hitting critical mass.
- freehunter 9y ago
  A lot of IoT stuff is complete junk, though. People make complaints about Apple products being overpriced but the expectation is reverse of reality. This is what it costs for a quality product. Sure you can make things cheaper, but you have to cut somewhere. Is having your living room lights being part of a botnet worth saving 10% off the purchase price? Just because item 1 is cheaper than item 2 doesn't mean item 2 is overpriced.
  - rxhernandez 9y ago
    I'm sure that people are well aware that Chinese knockoffs do exist and that they are stereotypically of lesser quality than it's authentic counterpart. I think the only thought process going on for most people thinking is overpriced is the fact that Apple is in the name. On computers they'd be wholly correct. On phones it's debatable. On watches they might be worth it depending on your usage. But that's the best case scenario for Apple, your usage might necessitate that quality. By and large people don't need that kind of quality because they'll never come close to that usage. In that respect many apple products are very overpriced for many people.
miheermunjal 9y ago
spot on - I feel they could have used more of that cash hoard to actually sponsor more consumer products. Frankly surprised they didn't go after more hardware partners from the initial launch date. Despite being a "kit" its almost a second tier one compared to others. Just part of "apple needs to connect more with its (3rd party) devs" I guess.

by IBM 9y ago

Shank 9y ago

For me, the details matter. HomeKit means that Siri can answer a question like "Are my lights on?" whereas the Amazon Echo can only send commands like "turn off" or "turn on" (with no knowledge of system state) to my lights. It's a very minor detail, but it makes me appreciate the HomeKit protocol that much more.

watty 9y ago
I don't follow. I just tested with my Google Home and it correctly told me my Coffee Maker was "off". Is this just a limitation of Echo?
- supergeek133 9y ago
  Might depend on the light maker and how they maintain their Skills/Actions. It was a quick add to development after initial release.
- robterrell 9y ago
  Can you trick the Google Home by turning the coffee maker on yourself? i.e. is it just remembering the last state it set, or is it able to query a device for current state?
  - EddieRingle 9y ago
    I don't have a coffee maker, but I just tried this with my Philips Hue lights and it was able to get the right state even after I turned the lights off manually through the Hue app.
    - cbhl 9y ago
      Try: 1) turn off a light in the app 2) physically disconnect and reconnect power to a light (e.g. unplug and plug in) 3) note that light is on by default (at least for Hue lightstrips, not sure about others) 4) note that you cannot turn the light off without turning it on in the app
      - vmarsy 9y ago
        3) is true with all hue lights, so that you can easily override using the good old physical switches. However, are you sure about 4? I had power outages sometimes, when the power comes back, all the hue lights gets on (Not cool when it's 4 am by the way), but then I'd just press "Off" on my hue light app and they'd all turn off. If I remember the Hue API, you can send a new state to the lights not matter what the previous state was, so I'm not surprised this works correctly, which is why I'm confused about your step 4). Are you trying to turn them off via a Echo command specifically?
        TeMPOraL 9y ago
        I'm using my own CLI script to control Hue lights[0] and I confirm that you can set the state of your lights directly, without referring to or even knowing the previous one. The API is pretty straightforward. I suspect that even the vanilla Hue app on Android does that - given the way I often manage to switch the lights before the app UI figures out what's their current state. -- [0] - https://github.com/TeMPOraL/hju https://github.com/TeMPOraL/hju
      - op00to 9y ago
        This is not true with my Hue light bulbs on iOS. I can do those steps and turn the bulb off in both the Hue app as well as via HomeKit.
- Shank 9y ago
  It could be. Most of the time I notice it with the hue light system and telling lights to turn "off" or "on." Because the Echo can't get state or maybe doesn't implement it, it frequently says "okay" but fails to do the action. I can only assume this is because it mishears "off" and "on" and it has no way of inferring that I mean "the inverse of whatever state it is."

Semiapies 9y ago

Failure is a safe hot take, because most things fail. It's the cold reading of tech news or business news.

Bartweiss 9y ago

I'm not really convinced they got the fundamentals correct in the beginning, though. From a designer's perspective, the hardware requirement alone is a fatal error - it's a totally unacceptable level of initial lock-in and expense. Fixing that actually looks like a major change to the merits of the device.

derefr 9y ago
Fundamentals from the perspective of a consumer: if you buy a HomeKit-certified device, you'll be getting something pretty good. There might not be any HomeKit-certified devices because the development process is/was onerous, but that's a separate question from what consumers get in the end from the devices that do make it through that obstacle course.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  Yeah, agreed. The one other issue, though, is that I think it's wrong to evaluate the quality of each device in isolation. From Apple's viewpoint HomeKit will be a success iff there are a wide range of quality products for it. They're trying to sit at the center of an ecosystem, and that means not just offering quality but hitting critical mass.
freehunter 9y ago
A lot of IoT stuff is complete junk, though. People make complaints about Apple products being overpriced but the expectation is reverse of reality. This is what it costs for a quality product. Sure you can make things cheaper, but you have to cut somewhere. Is having your living room lights being part of a botnet worth saving 10% off the purchase price? Just because item 1 is cheaper than item 2 doesn't mean item 2 is overpriced.
- rxhernandez 9y ago
  I'm sure that people are well aware that Chinese knockoffs do exist and that they are stereotypically of lesser quality than it's authentic counterpart. I think the only thought process going on for most people thinking is overpriced is the fact that Apple is in the name. On computers they'd be wholly correct. On phones it's debatable. On watches they might be worth it depending on your usage. But that's the best case scenario for Apple, your usage might necessitate that quality. By and large people don't need that kind of quality because they'll never come close to that usage. In that respect many apple products are very overpriced for many people.

miheermunjal 9y ago

spot on - I feel they could have used more of that cash hoard to actually sponsor more consumer products. Frankly surprised they didn't go after more hardware partners from the initial launch date. Despite being a "kit" its almost a second tier one compared to others. Just part of "apple needs to connect more with its (3rd party) devs" I guess.