6 ms·

WakeMate Update

57 points by tdavis 16y ago

BRadmin 16y ago
The last update email I was sent from these guys (coincidentally received on April Fool's) said I'd receive a unit no later than July 31st, as a conservative estimate. No communication between then and now, over 3 months, so I emailed them 5 days ago - no lick of a response. And can someone clarify this for me, because I have a paypal receipt showing I sent them 5 bucks: "Although no money was ever collected from those who have pre-ordered..."
- tdavis 16y ago
  That's odd; we reply to all emails. Where did you send it? Also, check out help.WakeMate.com; we're very good about managing that as well. I clarified your question in an above comment.
  - Frazzydee 16y ago
    I also sent an email a week ago, and got no response. Sent to preorder@wakemate.com
    - Frazzydee 16y ago
      Update: I got a response within 24 hours after emailing contact@wakemate.com
- cullenking 16y ago
  To be sympathetic to a group that I (and others) have been giving alot of flack (deserved or undeserved), I am personally still working through a backlog of 200 user questions/suggestions. If you don't stay on top of them, they can pile up. Catching back up when you get behind is difficult without sounding canned, and I understand the pain. However, it's definitely a good sign for your company that you have identified a pain point of enough severity that you generate this much talk and correspondence. Believe me, even when all the correspondence is praise and appreciated suggestions, staying on top of them is difficult!
ComputerGuru 16y ago
Although no money was ever collected from those who have pre-ordered Bullsh!t. Just because they didn't collect the entire cost of the wakemate, they can't claim not to have collected money. Many here on HN and elsewhere (myself included) paid the down payment of 5 bucks to get on the waiting list. Of course I don't care about the 5 bucks, but for them to claim they didn't take any money.......
- JacobAldridge 16y ago
  Yeah, that was my immediate thought (as an outside observer). Seems like a major snafu in either communications or (worse still, and less likely) corporate attitude to think 'no money has changed hands' when it actually has.
- clewiston 16y ago
  I've updated the blog post to reflect what actually happened... the majority of pre-orders (> 80%), which were through Google Checkout, were never charged; the Paypal pre-orders, however, were.
  - tdavis 16y ago
    To follow up on that further: PayPal quickly limited the account, hence the move to Google. PayPal funds remain in PayPal and are used to process refunds. To make it 100% clear: the only entity to profit from pre-orders has been PayPal, from interest earned on locked funds. We have not made a single dime.
    - michaelfairley 16y ago
      More bullshit. I ordered through Google Checkout and definitely have a $5 my credit card bill.
      - tdavis 16y ago
        Did you confirm the charge was never returned? That's how the $1 authentication charge works on our new store; we charge $1 and if the full amount isn't settled within a couple weeks the $1 is returned and we're charged a small fee (so pre-orders actually cost us money). If that's not the case, it's probably a fluke.
carterschonwald 16y ago
I realize that many people who frequent HN are quite grumped about wakemate (and perhaps rightfully so). Nonetheless, its worth pointing out that designing and then manufacturing an electronic gadget (as a single end to end process) is in many ways orders of magnitude more difficult than shipping a webapp that works on a post IE6 web browser. Theres perhaps certain regulatory elements that need to be dealt with, as well as liability issues that just don't happen with normal software, and thats ignoring quality control issues in manufacturing. Moreover, somehow amidst being busy with all this (and perhaps wanting to actually ship both so that theres no CA suit from those who pre-ordered, as well actually having a product with sales), they're doing a pretty good job about being open about hiccups along the way, and to in a relatively timely fashion respond to most nice email requests. Pray tell hn, how many companies discussed on hn are open about the end to end design process for some physical product? I can't think of many myself, and I'd actually really like/enjoy it if once they're comfortably got v1 shipping, that they take the time to write some more elaborated posts documenting their whole design through to final manufacturing or something like that. just my $.02
- rodh257 16y ago
  yeah I have no problems waiting, I'd imagine it would be very difficult. I do think they should clarify what they mean by saying they didn't take anyones money though. Unnecessary statement and one that can be disputed given everyone paid $5 deposit.
- blackguardx 16y ago
  It probably would have been better for them to build all the initial units themselves while they ramp up the outsourced manufacturing. Stuffing boards and soldering isn't too hard while outsourcing is never easy.
  - clewiston 16y ago
    the surface mount packages we use for the chip components on the WakeMate are a little difficult to solder by hand, unfortunately.
djahng 16y ago
I'm curious as to why their "About us" page is empty. Beyond their manufacturing complications, I'm wondering what qualifies them to make statements and a device that claims to help people sleep/wake up better. It leaves the door open to everything from "read some academic papers written by grad students" to "medical doctor with years of sleep research". I'm sure a quick google search would bring up more info about the founders, but it seems more appropriate to be able to find it from the company itself. That aside, this product does seem promising. I typically sleep only 5-6 hours per night and wake up naturally (without an alarm clock). I feel fine most of the time, but I do notice on those occasional days that I sleep 8+ hours, I feel much better. Being able to analyze my sleep with a $50 device at home is something that does interest me.
- bretpiatt 16y ago
  Here is the background of the Wakemate staff, yes they are qualified to build a sleep aid device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WakeMate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WakeMate Craig has a PhD from HST, it doesn't get much more qualified than that.
  - djahng 16y ago
    PhD from HST in itself is just a credential and doesn't mean much beyond that. I'm sure you've seen the commercials for "doctor recommended back-pain relief products" that are being endorsed by dentists...
9oliYQjP 16y ago
Honest question here and I apologize if it comes off as snarky. I'm just curious. But why is Wakemate pursuing this sort of business model as opposed to say, producing a few prototypes and shopping those around to gadget makers who would manufacture and sell them? Gadget makers are notoriously good at making gadgets, and notoriously bad at making web sites. Even if they were to steal your idea for the gadget, they'd still farm out the web site and probably pay $250K to some agency to get that part of the job done. So partnering with you would make a lot of sense. You might even have been able to get some up-front money out of the deal.
zaatar 16y ago
Will the wakemates work with an iPad?
martythemaniak 16y ago
People are taking it too hard on these guys. It's $5 for a nifty gadget, the lack of which is not the end of the world. I pre-ordered one, and I don't think their delays are a big deal - probably because you expected that from a startup.
- axod 16y ago
  I think their bad communication just makes things works (as far as I see).
  - rodh257 16y ago
    they have fixed this. They regularly blog, have sent email messages, twitter posts etc apologizing for the delays and keeping us informed on the latest updates on shipping, demos of the product to show they are making progress etc. I'm really not sure what else they could do in the communication regard, their only problem now is they aren't shipping the product.
jeb 16y ago
The big mistake they made was that pre-order. It was a great marketing move in the start, but when things went wrong, it became their biggest enemy. Moral of the story: Don't collect any money at all from people till you can immediately send them what they paid for.
- tdavis 16y ago
  When I first joined the company I felt the same way. Then I was told the whole story and it made a lot of sense. Basically, without pre-orders, there would be no WakeMate. They were in the tough position of having to prove the product's viability to investors and the investors wanted actual credit cards to prove that viability. At the end of the day, it worked out as best as could be hoped for given such a bad launch estimate: roughly 90% of customers were never charged (PayPal being the exception, though the money remains PayPal's) and investors ponied up enough cash to hire the necessary people and pay for everything going into the first big run, which all together will end up costing waaaay more than what those $5 could have bought. Don't get me wrong, it's still embarrassing to everybody that we've had pre-orders waiting for so long; that was never the intention. It's a shitty way to treat our first customers, but it was an honest mistake. Many such mistakes were made—especially with regard to communication—but knowing what I know now I don't feel the pre-order taking itself was one. In fact it's probably the only reason the product is nearly out now.
ErrantX 16y ago
Wakemate are facing the common software "thing", only with hardware :) never quite finished, always redesigning something, "nearly" there, always 90%. Will they ever make it?
kevinelliott 16y ago
While many people seem uberly disturbed about the delays and "$5" charges (under 20% of people who pre-ordered it even seemed to affect), I took the opposite opinion. I'm excited to see a startup trying to build hardware and software, all from an original seed investment with ycombinator. It is suffering from situations most other seeded and angel invested startups go through, and they seem incredibly excited to improve. What more could you ask for? Sure, the product. Fair enough, but give them some slack. It's not like some of the software vaporware we've seen (like The Hit List for iPhone). I know it must be hard not to be able to get that Venti Double Whip Quad Shot Mocha until you get your $5 back! Whatever! This negative response only excited my interest in the product and I just got done pre-ordering one. And if I don't get it in a couple weeks, they'll release my $1 hold. Nothing lost. And if it ships, I'll improve my sleeping habits.
levirosol 16y ago
Wakemate has done very poorly in setting my expectations. Therefore, I will set my own. I'll get charged the remaining $45 in 4Q 2010, and receive the product in 2Q 2011. It will break in 3Q 2011.
Oxryly 16y ago
Take full and complete responsibility for the fuck-ups and people will give you a break. No hedging, no explanations... nothing that can possibly be interpreted as rationalization. Express only pure remorse and gratitude and the mood will change immediately.

57 points by tdavis 16y ago

The last update email I was sent from these guys (coincidentally received on April Fool's) said I'd receive a unit no later than July 31st, as a conservative estimate. No communication between then and now, over 3 months, so I emailed them 5 days ago - no lick of a response. And can someone clarify this for me, because I have a paypal receipt showing I sent them 5 bucks: "Although no money was ever collected from those who have pre-ordered..."

tdavis 16y ago
That's odd; we reply to all emails. Where did you send it? Also, check out help.WakeMate.com; we're very good about managing that as well. I clarified your question in an above comment.
- Frazzydee 16y ago
  I also sent an email a week ago, and got no response. Sent to preorder@wakemate.com
  - Frazzydee 16y ago
    Update: I got a response within 24 hours after emailing contact@wakemate.com
cullenking 16y ago
To be sympathetic to a group that I (and others) have been giving alot of flack (deserved or undeserved), I am personally still working through a backlog of 200 user questions/suggestions. If you don't stay on top of them, they can pile up. Catching back up when you get behind is difficult without sounding canned, and I understand the pain. However, it's definitely a good sign for your company that you have identified a pain point of enough severity that you generate this much talk and correspondence. Believe me, even when all the correspondence is praise and appreciated suggestions, staying on top of them is difficult!

ComputerGuru 16y ago

Although no money was ever collected from those who have pre-ordered Bullsh!t. Just because they didn't collect the entire cost of the wakemate, they can't claim not to have collected money. Many here on HN and elsewhere (myself included) paid the down payment of 5 bucks to get on the waiting list. Of course I don't care about the 5 bucks, but for them to claim they didn't take any money.......

JacobAldridge 16y ago
Yeah, that was my immediate thought (as an outside observer). Seems like a major snafu in either communications or (worse still, and less likely) corporate attitude to think 'no money has changed hands' when it actually has.
clewiston 16y ago
I've updated the blog post to reflect what actually happened... the majority of pre-orders (> 80%), which were through Google Checkout, were never charged; the Paypal pre-orders, however, were.
- tdavis 16y ago
  To follow up on that further: PayPal quickly limited the account, hence the move to Google. PayPal funds remain in PayPal and are used to process refunds. To make it 100% clear: the only entity to profit from pre-orders has been PayPal, from interest earned on locked funds. We have not made a single dime.
  - michaelfairley 16y ago
    More bullshit. I ordered through Google Checkout and definitely have a $5 my credit card bill.
    - tdavis 16y ago
      Did you confirm the charge was never returned? That's how the $1 authentication charge works on our new store; we charge $1 and if the full amount isn't settled within a couple weeks the $1 is returned and we're charged a small fee (so pre-orders actually cost us money). If that's not the case, it's probably a fluke.

carterschonwald 16y ago

I realize that many people who frequent HN are quite grumped about wakemate (and perhaps rightfully so). Nonetheless, its worth pointing out that designing and then manufacturing an electronic gadget (as a single end to end process) is in many ways orders of magnitude more difficult than shipping a webapp that works on a post IE6 web browser. Theres perhaps certain regulatory elements that need to be dealt with, as well as liability issues that just don't happen with normal software, and thats ignoring quality control issues in manufacturing. Moreover, somehow amidst being busy with all this (and perhaps wanting to actually ship both so that theres no CA suit from those who pre-ordered, as well actually having a product with sales), they're doing a pretty good job about being open about hiccups along the way, and to in a relatively timely fashion respond to most nice email requests. Pray tell hn, how many companies discussed on hn are open about the end to end design process for some physical product? I can't think of many myself, and I'd actually really like/enjoy it if once they're comfortably got v1 shipping, that they take the time to write some more elaborated posts documenting their whole design through to final manufacturing or something like that. just my $.02

rodh257 16y ago
yeah I have no problems waiting, I'd imagine it would be very difficult. I do think they should clarify what they mean by saying they didn't take anyones money though. Unnecessary statement and one that can be disputed given everyone paid $5 deposit.
blackguardx 16y ago
It probably would have been better for them to build all the initial units themselves while they ramp up the outsourced manufacturing. Stuffing boards and soldering isn't too hard while outsourcing is never easy.
- clewiston 16y ago
  the surface mount packages we use for the chip components on the WakeMate are a little difficult to solder by hand, unfortunately.

djahng 16y ago

I'm curious as to why their "About us" page is empty. Beyond their manufacturing complications, I'm wondering what qualifies them to make statements and a device that claims to help people sleep/wake up better. It leaves the door open to everything from "read some academic papers written by grad students" to "medical doctor with years of sleep research". I'm sure a quick google search would bring up more info about the founders, but it seems more appropriate to be able to find it from the company itself. That aside, this product does seem promising. I typically sleep only 5-6 hours per night and wake up naturally (without an alarm clock). I feel fine most of the time, but I do notice on those occasional days that I sleep 8+ hours, I feel much better. Being able to analyze my sleep with a $50 device at home is something that does interest me.

bretpiatt 16y ago
Here is the background of the Wakemate staff, yes they are qualified to build a sleep aid device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WakeMate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WakeMate Craig has a PhD from HST, it doesn't get much more qualified than that.
- djahng 16y ago
  PhD from HST in itself is just a credential and doesn't mean much beyond that. I'm sure you've seen the commercials for "doctor recommended back-pain relief products" that are being endorsed by dentists...

9oliYQjP 16y ago

Honest question here and I apologize if it comes off as snarky. I'm just curious. But why is Wakemate pursuing this sort of business model as opposed to say, producing a few prototypes and shopping those around to gadget makers who would manufacture and sell them? Gadget makers are notoriously good at making gadgets, and notoriously bad at making web sites. Even if they were to steal your idea for the gadget, they'd still farm out the web site and probably pay $250K to some agency to get that part of the job done. So partnering with you would make a lot of sense. You might even have been able to get some up-front money out of the deal.

zaatar 16y ago

Will the wakemates work with an iPad?

martythemaniak 16y ago

People are taking it too hard on these guys. It's $5 for a nifty gadget, the lack of which is not the end of the world. I pre-ordered one, and I don't think their delays are a big deal - probably because you expected that from a startup.

axod 16y ago
I think their bad communication just makes things works (as far as I see).
- rodh257 16y ago
  they have fixed this. They regularly blog, have sent email messages, twitter posts etc apologizing for the delays and keeping us informed on the latest updates on shipping, demos of the product to show they are making progress etc. I'm really not sure what else they could do in the communication regard, their only problem now is they aren't shipping the product.

jeb 16y ago

The big mistake they made was that pre-order. It was a great marketing move in the start, but when things went wrong, it became their biggest enemy. Moral of the story: Don't collect any money at all from people till you can immediately send them what they paid for.

tdavis 16y ago
When I first joined the company I felt the same way. Then I was told the whole story and it made a lot of sense. Basically, without pre-orders, there would be no WakeMate. They were in the tough position of having to prove the product's viability to investors and the investors wanted actual credit cards to prove that viability. At the end of the day, it worked out as best as could be hoped for given such a bad launch estimate: roughly 90% of customers were never charged (PayPal being the exception, though the money remains PayPal's) and investors ponied up enough cash to hire the necessary people and pay for everything going into the first big run, which all together will end up costing waaaay more than what those $5 could have bought. Don't get me wrong, it's still embarrassing to everybody that we've had pre-orders waiting for so long; that was never the intention. It's a shitty way to treat our first customers, but it was an honest mistake. Many such mistakes were made—especially with regard to communication—but knowing what I know now I don't feel the pre-order taking itself was one. In fact it's probably the only reason the product is nearly out now.

ErrantX 16y ago

Wakemate are facing the common software "thing", only with hardware :) never quite finished, always redesigning something, "nearly" there, always 90%. Will they ever make it?

kevinelliott 16y ago

While many people seem uberly disturbed about the delays and "$5" charges (under 20% of people who pre-ordered it even seemed to affect), I took the opposite opinion. I'm excited to see a startup trying to build hardware and software, all from an original seed investment with ycombinator. It is suffering from situations most other seeded and angel invested startups go through, and they seem incredibly excited to improve. What more could you ask for? Sure, the product. Fair enough, but give them some slack. It's not like some of the software vaporware we've seen (like The Hit List for iPhone). I know it must be hard not to be able to get that Venti Double Whip Quad Shot Mocha until you get your $5 back! Whatever! This negative response only excited my interest in the product and I just got done pre-ordering one. And if I don't get it in a couple weeks, they'll release my $1 hold. Nothing lost. And if it ships, I'll improve my sleeping habits.

levirosol 16y ago

Wakemate has done very poorly in setting my expectations. Therefore, I will set my own. I'll get charged the remaining $45 in 4Q 2010, and receive the product in 2Q 2011. It will break in 3Q 2011.

Oxryly 16y ago

Take full and complete responsibility for the fuck-ups and people will give you a break. No hedging, no explanations... nothing that can possibly be interpreted as rationalization. Express only pure remorse and gratitude and the mood will change immediately.