4 ms·

My understanding is that the danger of glyphosate is one step removed from direct action on "human" cells, so bringing up metabolic pathways is a straw-man argu

by laser 9y ago

My understanding is that the danger of glyphosate is one step removed from direct action on "human" cells, so bringing up metabolic pathways is a straw-man argument. The suspected danger is from disruption to the symbiosis of the entire human system, including the ~10x bacterial cells for every human cell that can be killed by glyphosate. https://www.nature.com/articles/npjbiofilms20163 https://www.nature.com/articles/npjbiofilms20163 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/

tptacek 9y ago
If this effect is real, can you link to animal studies conclusively demonstrating it? Because obviously we've been feeding a lot of rats a lot of glyphosate.
- meric 9y ago
  Well there's https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/01/glyphosate-harmful-rats-low-doses/ https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/01/glyphosate-harmful-rats-l... but I suppose fatty liver disease is not as serious as cancer...Wash your vegetables before eating. EDIT: I think it's prudent to wash vegetables to clean off any herbicides and other chemicals even if they are "known" to be harmless.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Note how the press release on this study, from Kings College London, done in 2017, calls it "the first to show a causative link between consumption of Roundup at a real-world environmental dose and a serious disease condition."
    - Danihan 9y ago
      Sure, only around 15 years too late. http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf
      - tptacek 9y ago
        Regarding that Senneff cite: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281240
        briantakita 9y ago
        Two ad hominems. Here's a possibility. The scientific social networks consist of people who's research is paid for by the same corporations/government agencies with inherent conflicts of interest.
        tptacek 9y ago
        Yes. Every credentialed scientist in the field is bought and paid for by Monsanto. Only the computer scientists can be trusted. That sounds about right for HN logic.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        briantakita 9y ago
        > Yes. Every credentialed scientist in the field is bought and paid for by Monsanto. I only raised a real possibility that is not factored in the two bullet points. Conflict of Interest. We assume that scientists are somehow immune & should not be questioned, particularly when there is evidence contracting their conclusions. Nothing to do with HN logic. From what it looks like, you are far more of the HN maven than I am...
  - sigstoat 9y ago
    > I think it's prudent to wash vegetables to clean off any herbicides and other chemicals even if they are "known" to be harmless. you're gonna have a real hard time getting all the chemicals off your veggies using dihydrogen monoxide, what with its high boiling point. i suggest using formaldehyde instead.
    - KSteffensen 9y ago
      High boiling point of water is irrelevant for solubility of veggie chemicals. What matters is hydrophilic/hydrophobic qualities. My suggestion would be to start with water, GI through methanol, acetonitrile, chloroform and end up with a good fatty oil, maybe olive oil. Remember to rinse if the oil with soap as the final step. Or maybe get some veggies that don't have the chemicals on them in the first place?
  - code_duck 9y ago
    You can't wash off chemicals that are absorbed by the plant systemically, like glysophate.

by laser 9y ago

tptacek 9y ago

If this effect is real, can you link to animal studies conclusively demonstrating it? Because obviously we've been feeding a lot of rats a lot of glyphosate.

meric 9y ago
Well there's https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/01/glyphosate-harmful-rats-low-doses/ https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/01/glyphosate-harmful-rats-l... but I suppose fatty liver disease is not as serious as cancer...Wash your vegetables before eating. EDIT: I think it's prudent to wash vegetables to clean off any herbicides and other chemicals even if they are "known" to be harmless.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Note how the press release on this study, from Kings College London, done in 2017, calls it "the first to show a causative link between consumption of Roundup at a real-world environmental dose and a serious disease condition."
  - Danihan 9y ago
    Sure, only around 15 years too late. http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/ITX_2013_06_04_Seneff.pdf
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Regarding that Senneff cite: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281240
      - briantakita 9y ago
        Two ad hominems. Here's a possibility. The scientific social networks consist of people who's research is paid for by the same corporations/government agencies with inherent conflicts of interest.
        tptacek 9y ago
        Yes. Every credentialed scientist in the field is bought and paid for by Monsanto. Only the computer scientists can be trusted. That sounds about right for HN logic.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        briantakita 9y ago
        > Yes. Every credentialed scientist in the field is bought and paid for by Monsanto. I only raised a real possibility that is not factored in the two bullet points. Conflict of Interest. We assume that scientists are somehow immune & should not be questioned, particularly when there is evidence contracting their conclusions. Nothing to do with HN logic. From what it looks like, you are far more of the HN maven than I am...
- sigstoat 9y ago
  > I think it's prudent to wash vegetables to clean off any herbicides and other chemicals even if they are "known" to be harmless. you're gonna have a real hard time getting all the chemicals off your veggies using dihydrogen monoxide, what with its high boiling point. i suggest using formaldehyde instead.
  - KSteffensen 9y ago
    High boiling point of water is irrelevant for solubility of veggie chemicals. What matters is hydrophilic/hydrophobic qualities. My suggestion would be to start with water, GI through methanol, acetonitrile, chloroform and end up with a good fatty oil, maybe olive oil. Remember to rinse if the oil with soap as the final step. Or maybe get some veggies that don't have the chemicals on them in the first place?
- code_duck 9y ago
  You can't wash off chemicals that are absorbed by the plant systemically, like glysophate.