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Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are th

Jesus. Look at the top comment and the replies in this thread. I find it hard to believe it is real HN commenters and not a TSLA PR campaign here. "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great." Seriously? This is being voted up? Also, the top commenter here "simonsarris" is a top commenter in the other TSLA thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14914310 It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread.

jessriedel 9y ago
I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." If you just note the connection without the inflammatory language, it's much more productive.
- awkwarddaturtle 9y ago
  > I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." Have you read the comments and the replies?
  - jessriedel 9y ago
    Yes. The fact that HN is sympathetic to Tesla is not more surprising than it's unusual interest in bicycle lanes and life extension. But name calling doesn't help at all. Better would be to link to high-quality criticism, write it yourself, or minimally just point out imbalance without inflammatory language.
tpolischuk 9y ago
The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. I'm not sure why you're so upset. 'Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environment, for ending the strategic dependence on oil dictatorships, and for renewing the belief in technology. And the cars are really nice too. Speculating, as some do, that the EV revolution would end with a Tesla bankruptcy is silly, not just because Google and Apple (and probably other companies) would be more than happy to take over before or after a bankruptcy, but also because consumers and the the auto industry have now been shown where to go. None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'
- awkwarddaturtle 9y ago
  > I'm not sure why you're so upset. I'm not. But it's interesting how I just got swarmed by 3 commenters. > The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. The context makes it even worse. "None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'" I can't believe you think that the "context" makes it any less cultish. The comment is almost messianic.
  - tpolischuk 9y ago
    Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla?
    - awkwarddaturtle 9y ago
      > Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? From your "context": "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B?" $5-10B Losses doesn't translate into "profitable". > Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla? Maybe? Electric cars existed before TSLA and electric cars will exist after TSLA. What is with you? I'm a fan of TSLA. I like electric vehicles. I just don't believe in the cult of it. Honestly, I don't expect crazy comments like "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. " to be upvoted on HN. Maybe on reddit or some other social media, but I feel there is a higher quality of people here. And when I see something odd, I'll point it out.
      - tpolischuk 9y ago
        So? Why does this bother you? Why can't people be fans of a person, company or product?
        ckastner 9y ago
Garet_Jax 9y ago
Jesus. Seriously? Seriously? <- Seems desperate.
throwfast1 9y ago
they have what appears to be a great product -- I am a lowly network security engineer and think I would enjoy working for them and interacting with their teams. the reality is the tesla team has continually delivered (often later than expected) in spite of incredible odds including significant short interest in the company and the probably increase in short interest after articles like this. I am rooting for them, despite the fact I probably will not buy one for a few years I like what they are doing and believe they are a net positive.
welcomecomrade 9y ago
You must be new here. Wait until you read the comments on a Hyperloop thread.
prettygenius 9y ago
People can be very devoted to their brand. It doesn't mean they're automatically shills. "OMG THIS GUY COMMENTED ON TWO TESLA THREADS, GET HIM!"
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
merb 9y ago
well seriously tesla is way way better than any german car company (and I'm from germany). Tesla burns trough cash (yes that's bad) and the germans "burn" (pollute) the cities. not that much better. just looking at the diesel summit, what a big kind of joke.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  Even accounting for recent VW emissions scandal, have you looked at their engines fuel consumption? Like a 170 hp diesel engine burning about 6 liters/100 km (47mpg? This is much better than any hybrid and much better than all EVs regarding CO2 emissions.. Just let this continue and we can forget about electric for a long time
- lafar6502 9y ago
  Even accounting for recent VW emissions scandal, have you looked at their engines fuel consumption? Like a 170 hp diesel engine burning about 6 liters/100 km (47mpg? This is much better than any hybrid and much better than all EVs regarding CO2 emissions.. Just let this continue and we can forget about electric for a long time
sireat 9y ago
Without resorting to hyperbole a reasonable case can be made that Tesla losing $5B is more utilitarian than SNAP,GRPN,ZNGA losing $5B. It is all about how society allocates its capital/claim checks(to use Buffett's term). Case is simple: we need to move away from fossil fuel economy at some point before it is too late. We can argue whether TSLA approach is wrong and whether we have plenty of time to adapt.
dlandis 9y ago
And yet those comments are making more substantive points than yours. You are just expressing disbelief.
dang 9y ago
Accusations of astroturfing and shillage are not allowed on HN unless you have evidence. (Plenty of explanations of this in the comments via https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=true&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=true&page=0&dateR....) Not only do you have no evidence, you're seriously misassessing HN if you think it isn't replete with sincere Tesla fanatics. Worse, you broke the HN guidelines badly by smearing a particular user. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do it again. Moreover, you've been engaging in the kind of tedious flamewar that I pray every day, in vain, will not appear today on Hacker News. So: lots of reasons not to comment like this. Edit: actually, this account has been using HN primarily for political and ideological battle and flamewar in general, so I've banned it. This isn't what HN is for. (No, this is not because of TSLA shillage or whatever immigration policy you disapprove of.)

jessriedel 9y ago

I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." If you just note the connection without the inflammatory language, it's much more productive.

awkwarddaturtle 9y ago
> I don't see the jump from noting that the same enthusiastic fanboy is in the HN thread and the TSLA thread to "It's like a TSLA/Elon cult meeting in this thread." Have you read the comments and the replies?
- jessriedel 9y ago
  Yes. The fact that HN is sympathetic to Tesla is not more surprising than it's unusual interest in bicycle lanes and life extension. But name calling doesn't help at all. Better would be to link to high-quality criticism, write it yourself, or minimally just point out imbalance without inflammatory language.

tpolischuk 9y ago

The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. I'm not sure why you're so upset. 'Whether Tesla survives or not, these billions are some of the best spent money on the planet in the last 50 years. What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. What Tesla has achieved is so important in the long run for the environment, for ending the strategic dependence on oil dictatorships, and for renewing the belief in technology. And the cars are really nice too. Speculating, as some do, that the EV revolution would end with a Tesla bankruptcy is silly, not just because Google and Apple (and probably other companies) would be more than happy to take over before or after a bankruptcy, but also because consumers and the the auto industry have now been shown where to go. None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'

awkwarddaturtle 9y ago
> I'm not sure why you're so upset. I'm not. But it's interesting how I just got swarmed by 3 commenters. > The comment you are quoting is a snippet out of context. The context makes it even worse. "None of us can unlearn what Tesla has taught us. There is no way back now. Tesla has already won.'" I can't believe you think that the "context" makes it any less cultish. The comment is almost messianic.
- tpolischuk 9y ago
  Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla?
  - awkwarddaturtle 9y ago
    > Is he wrong? Did Tesla not prove to the rest of the auto industry that electric cars are not only viable but also profitable and inevitable? From your "context": "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B?" $5-10B Losses doesn't translate into "profitable". > Would we have the Bolt, Spark, Fiat e500, eGolf without Tesla? Maybe? Electric cars existed before TSLA and electric cars will exist after TSLA. What is with you? I'm a fan of TSLA. I like electric vehicles. I just don't believe in the cult of it. Honestly, I don't expect crazy comments like "What are the accumulated losses so far? $5-10B? Even if Tesla were to spend another $50B and go bankrupt, I would still maintain it's great. " to be upvoted on HN. Maybe on reddit or some other social media, but I feel there is a higher quality of people here. And when I see something odd, I'll point it out.
    - tpolischuk 9y ago
      So? Why does this bother you? Why can't people be fans of a person, company or product?
      - ckastner 9y ago

Garet_Jax 9y ago

Jesus. Seriously? Seriously? <- Seems desperate.

throwfast1 9y ago

they have what appears to be a great product -- I am a lowly network security engineer and think I would enjoy working for them and interacting with their teams. the reality is the tesla team has continually delivered (often later than expected) in spite of incredible odds including significant short interest in the company and the probably increase in short interest after articles like this. I am rooting for them, despite the fact I probably will not buy one for a few years I like what they are doing and believe they are a net positive.

welcomecomrade 9y ago

You must be new here. Wait until you read the comments on a Hyperloop thread.

prettygenius 9y ago

People can be very devoted to their brand. It doesn't mean they're automatically shills. "OMG THIS GUY COMMENTED ON TWO TESLA THREADS, GET HIM!"

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

merb 9y ago

well seriously tesla is way way better than any german car company (and I'm from germany). Tesla burns trough cash (yes that's bad) and the germans "burn" (pollute) the cities. not that much better. just looking at the diesel summit, what a big kind of joke.

lafar6502 9y ago
Even accounting for recent VW emissions scandal, have you looked at their engines fuel consumption? Like a 170 hp diesel engine burning about 6 liters/100 km (47mpg? This is much better than any hybrid and much better than all EVs regarding CO2 emissions.. Just let this continue and we can forget about electric for a long time
lafar6502 9y ago
Even accounting for recent VW emissions scandal, have you looked at their engines fuel consumption? Like a 170 hp diesel engine burning about 6 liters/100 km (47mpg? This is much better than any hybrid and much better than all EVs regarding CO2 emissions.. Just let this continue and we can forget about electric for a long time

sireat 9y ago

Without resorting to hyperbole a reasonable case can be made that Tesla losing $5B is more utilitarian than SNAP,GRPN,ZNGA losing $5B. It is all about how society allocates its capital/claim checks(to use Buffett's term). Case is simple: we need to move away from fossil fuel economy at some point before it is too late. We can argue whether TSLA approach is wrong and whether we have plenty of time to adapt.

dlandis 9y ago

And yet those comments are making more substantive points than yours. You are just expressing disbelief.

dang 9y ago

Accusations of astroturfing and shillage are not allowed on HN unless you have evidence. (Plenty of explanations of this in the comments via https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=true&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=true&page=0&dateR....) Not only do you have no evidence, you're seriously misassessing HN if you think it isn't replete with sincere Tesla fanatics. Worse, you broke the HN guidelines badly by smearing a particular user. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do it again. Moreover, you've been engaging in the kind of tedious flamewar that I pray every day, in vain, will not appear today on Hacker News. So: lots of reasons not to comment like this. Edit: actually, this account has been using HN primarily for political and ideological battle and flamewar in general, so I've banned it. This isn't what HN is for. (No, this is not because of TSLA shillage or whatever immigration policy you disapprove of.)