4 ms·

> closing strictly off topic questions that were interesting ... closed as not constructive, or locked and marked as having "historical significance" SO is a g

by jonahx 9y ago

> closing strictly off topic questions that were interesting ... closed as not constructive, or locked and marked as having "historical significance" SO is a great resource, but not providing a mechanism for this is its greatest failing. I understand "subjective" questions are problematic, but banning them outright without qualification is not the correct solution. I've always thought restricting them to users with 2K reputation or something like that, and having a different set of closing standards if you tag your question "opinion" or "tool-recommendation", could work well. The most highly upvoted (ie, useful) questions are more often than not marked "closed" -- and that has always seemed like an undeniable signal that the current system doesn't capture all potential value.

aeorgnoieang 9y ago
There's a separate Stack Exchange site for software recommendations: - https://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/ https://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/ But I'm with you – if anything, even more extreme – the SO model handles 'subjective' questions just fine.
- mixmastamyk 9y ago
  Wow, didn't know that existed.
- jonahx 9y ago
  Thanks, I'd forgotten about that. Although it's pretty clear (imo) from the activity that it would have worked better as a special SO tag.
  - shagie 9y ago
    One of the principles of version control and branching is "branch on incompatible policy" ( http://www.bradapp.com/acme/branching/branch-creation.html#PolicyBranch http://www.bradapp.com/acme/branching/branch-creation.html#P... ). The same applies to Stack Exchange sites. Instead of trying to say "these rules apply to only this tag and always when this tag is included", that entire set of topicality was taken to a different site. Consider trying to ask the question "what is the best C complier given XYZ requirements" on SO. Its tagged with "C", "recommendations" and "compiler". Well... that would mean that it shows up in the C feed - and those people don't think its a good question, so they close it. And then the recommendation followers say "but its tagged with recommendation - that means it should be open and its ok if it gets 100 answers." Two different policies on the site. So branch the community - ask the questions about recommendations where a different policy for what makes a good question and answer on a different site. CodeGolf was that way. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/code-golf https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/code-golf - but two things happened. First, it got lost in the noise of all of the other questions on the site. Secondly, people who wanted to have fun questions with many answers that constantly get bumped to the top of activity were getting their questions closed and down voted because of that fun. So the community branched to a new stack exchange site https://codegolf.stackexchange.com https://codegolf.stackexchange.com where they have flourished even more than they were when it was a tag within stack overflow. That Software Recommendations doesn't have the activity and isn't flourishing the same way suggests that first off people aren't interested in moderating or curating the site in a way that attracts more than drive by questions. With a Q&A site it is the Answers that drive if it flourishes or not. The quality of the answers draw other people who want to provide at least as good content. Also, the format for Q&A doesn't work as well for recommendations. Why does it have to be on Stack Overflow or another exchange site? Why not go over to https://www.slant.co https://www.slant.co where the entire focus of the site is the "what is the best XYZ" - https://www.slant.co/topics/4265/~open-source-c-c-compilers https://www.slant.co/topics/4265/~open-source-c-c-compilers https://www.slant.co/topics/1376/~resources-to-learn-about-compiler-construction https://www.slant.co/topics/1376/~resources-to-learn-about-c... or https://www.slant.co/improve/topics/7940/~which-open-source-c-compiler-s-source-code-is-easiest-to-understand https://www.slant.co/improve/topics/7940/~which-open-source-... for example. Different format focused on that question doing it better than Stack Overflow ever could (but that's also because it doesn't try to do a more general Q&A format).
    - jonahx 9y ago
      I appreciate this answer. It's a well thought out response to my complaint. > Why does it have to be on Stack Overflow or another exchange site? This seems to be the crux of the matter, and here is where I still (at least partially) disagree with you. It doesn't have to obviously, but the SO seems particularly good at answering many of these questions, as attested by the innumerable highly upvoted and closed questions and answers. Which is to say, there are many posters on SO who are exactly the people I want to ask these questions of, and who would be willing and able to answer them. > That Software Recommendations doesn't have the activity and isn't flourishing the same way suggests that first off people aren't interested in moderating or curating the site in a way that attracts more than drive by questions. You know that's not a reliable conclusion to draw. There are all sorts of confounds here, the largest being that people don't know about the site. But beyond that, there is just habit and access: If I use SO all the time, and some subjective question pops up in a feed I watch, I may just answer it -- even though I would never visit software recs on its own. This phenomenon is ubiquitous, and the power of entrenched habits can't be overstated. All that said, it's possible I'm wrong and it wouldn't work. But I've read the meta threads about previous "attempts" that failed, and none of them convinced me that it can't work.
    - aeorgnoieang 9y ago
      Funny enough, there are lots of significant differences among the different groups of people for different 'tags' on SO already. > Why not go over to [a site of which you're not aware] ... Incidentally, Slant seems to be flourishing about as much as the Software Recommendations SE site.
coryfklein 9y ago
I disagree. "What is the best Javascript framework?" may have garnered +2,000 votes for "jQuery" seven years ago. What would that question look like to a newbie today? They would likely be confused whether they should use jQuery, Backbone, or React, as they'll all be intermixed as highly upvoted.
- jonahx 9y ago
  So because it could potentially confuse a newbie, all the professional developers who can easily incorporate the contexts of the questions dates and their knowledge should be denied the ability to share useful information? This is thing: I'm not arguing (and I don't think anyone is) that these questions have answers. I'm arguing that access to the opinions of others, along with their reputation and other indicators of alignment with your own values, has immense value. More value than the technical questions that do have right and wrong answers. I can sort through the information myself can come to an informed conclusion.
- shagie 9y ago
  If I may point over at Slant.co for this type of question - https://www.slant.co/topics/5699/~javascript-frontend-frameworks https://www.slant.co/topics/5699/~javascript-frontend-framew... ; it appears to do the "what is the best XYZ" much better than a Stack Overflow question.

by jonahx 9y ago

aeorgnoieang 9y ago

There's a separate Stack Exchange site for software recommendations: - https://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/ https://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/ But I'm with you – if anything, even more extreme – the SO model handles 'subjective' questions just fine.

mixmastamyk 9y ago
Wow, didn't know that existed.
jonahx 9y ago
Thanks, I'd forgotten about that. Although it's pretty clear (imo) from the activity that it would have worked better as a special SO tag.
- shagie 9y ago
  One of the principles of version control and branching is "branch on incompatible policy" ( http://www.bradapp.com/acme/branching/branch-creation.html#PolicyBranch http://www.bradapp.com/acme/branching/branch-creation.html#P... ). The same applies to Stack Exchange sites. Instead of trying to say "these rules apply to only this tag and always when this tag is included", that entire set of topicality was taken to a different site. Consider trying to ask the question "what is the best C complier given XYZ requirements" on SO. Its tagged with "C", "recommendations" and "compiler". Well... that would mean that it shows up in the C feed - and those people don't think its a good question, so they close it. And then the recommendation followers say "but its tagged with recommendation - that means it should be open and its ok if it gets 100 answers." Two different policies on the site. So branch the community - ask the questions about recommendations where a different policy for what makes a good question and answer on a different site. CodeGolf was that way. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/code-golf https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/code-golf - but two things happened. First, it got lost in the noise of all of the other questions on the site. Secondly, people who wanted to have fun questions with many answers that constantly get bumped to the top of activity were getting their questions closed and down voted because of that fun. So the community branched to a new stack exchange site https://codegolf.stackexchange.com https://codegolf.stackexchange.com where they have flourished even more than they were when it was a tag within stack overflow. That Software Recommendations doesn't have the activity and isn't flourishing the same way suggests that first off people aren't interested in moderating or curating the site in a way that attracts more than drive by questions. With a Q&A site it is the Answers that drive if it flourishes or not. The quality of the answers draw other people who want to provide at least as good content. Also, the format for Q&A doesn't work as well for recommendations. Why does it have to be on Stack Overflow or another exchange site? Why not go over to https://www.slant.co https://www.slant.co where the entire focus of the site is the "what is the best XYZ" - https://www.slant.co/topics/4265/~open-source-c-c-compilers https://www.slant.co/topics/4265/~open-source-c-c-compilers https://www.slant.co/topics/1376/~resources-to-learn-about-compiler-construction https://www.slant.co/topics/1376/~resources-to-learn-about-c... or https://www.slant.co/improve/topics/7940/~which-open-source-c-compiler-s-source-code-is-easiest-to-understand https://www.slant.co/improve/topics/7940/~which-open-source-... for example. Different format focused on that question doing it better than Stack Overflow ever could (but that's also because it doesn't try to do a more general Q&A format).
  - jonahx 9y ago
    I appreciate this answer. It's a well thought out response to my complaint. > Why does it have to be on Stack Overflow or another exchange site? This seems to be the crux of the matter, and here is where I still (at least partially) disagree with you. It doesn't have to obviously, but the SO seems particularly good at answering many of these questions, as attested by the innumerable highly upvoted and closed questions and answers. Which is to say, there are many posters on SO who are exactly the people I want to ask these questions of, and who would be willing and able to answer them. > That Software Recommendations doesn't have the activity and isn't flourishing the same way suggests that first off people aren't interested in moderating or curating the site in a way that attracts more than drive by questions. You know that's not a reliable conclusion to draw. There are all sorts of confounds here, the largest being that people don't know about the site. But beyond that, there is just habit and access: If I use SO all the time, and some subjective question pops up in a feed I watch, I may just answer it -- even though I would never visit software recs on its own. This phenomenon is ubiquitous, and the power of entrenched habits can't be overstated. All that said, it's possible I'm wrong and it wouldn't work. But I've read the meta threads about previous "attempts" that failed, and none of them convinced me that it can't work.
  - aeorgnoieang 9y ago
    Funny enough, there are lots of significant differences among the different groups of people for different 'tags' on SO already. > Why not go over to [a site of which you're not aware] ... Incidentally, Slant seems to be flourishing about as much as the Software Recommendations SE site.

coryfklein 9y ago

I disagree. "What is the best Javascript framework?" may have garnered +2,000 votes for "jQuery" seven years ago. What would that question look like to a newbie today? They would likely be confused whether they should use jQuery, Backbone, or React, as they'll all be intermixed as highly upvoted.

jonahx 9y ago
So because it could potentially confuse a newbie, all the professional developers who can easily incorporate the contexts of the questions dates and their knowledge should be denied the ability to share useful information? This is thing: I'm not arguing (and I don't think anyone is) that these questions have answers. I'm arguing that access to the opinions of others, along with their reputation and other indicators of alignment with your own values, has immense value. More value than the technical questions that do have right and wrong answers. I can sort through the information myself can come to an informed conclusion.
shagie 9y ago
If I may point over at Slant.co for this type of question - https://www.slant.co/topics/5699/~javascript-frontend-frameworks https://www.slant.co/topics/5699/~javascript-frontend-framew... ; it appears to do the "what is the best XYZ" much better than a Stack Overflow question.