5 ms·

"No" The answer to the question in the title. The generation is different, and a correlation does not imply causation. I personally find the connection pretty

by 317070 9y ago

"No" The answer to the question in the title. The generation is different, and a correlation does not imply causation. I personally find the connection pretty far fetched. After all, while the smartphone is also common in the EU, the teen suicide rates did not change that much. (slide 9: https://www.escap.eu/bestanden/Research/alan_apter_on_youth_suicide_prevention_2011.pdf https://www.escap.eu/bestanden/Research/alan_apter_on_youth_... )

golergka 9y ago
> correlation does not imply causation The articles adresses this issue and talks about research into correlation.
rohansingh 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline... > Betteridge's law of headlines is one name for an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
- rainbowmverse 9y ago
  Someone needs to come up with a law for internet laws that become overused to the point where they're more of an impediment to discussion than the thing they're about.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
    "If you're not paying then you are the product" being another prime example that seems to have been done to death here on HN.
  - maw 9y ago
    The only kind of person who would say that is a na—Sorry. Never mind.
jensv 9y ago
" One piece of data that indirectly but stunningly captures kids’ growing isolation, for good and for bad: Since 2007, the homicide rate among teens has declined, but the suicide rate has increased. As teens have started spending less time together, they have become less likely to kill one another, and more likely to kill themselves. In 2011, for the first time in 24 years, the teen suicide rate was higher than the teen homicide rate. Depression and suicide have many causes; too much technology is clearly not the only one. And the teen suicide rate was even higher in the 1990s, long before smartphones existed. Then again, about four times as many Americans now take antidepressants, which are often effective in treating severe depression, the type most strongly linked to suicide."
mhb 9y ago
What are you refuting with your link? TFA says Since 2007, the homicide rate among teens has declined, but the suicide rate has increased. The slide you cite ends in 2005.
- wongarsu 9y ago
  [1] is a better source (taken from eurostat report [2], which defines intentional self-hard as "purposely self-inflicted poisoning or injury and (attempted) suicide."). Despite a brief increase in 2008, overall the teen suicide rate has declined. The suicide rate for people aged 20-24 has slighlty increased since 2007, following a steep decline. I can't find any data post 2011 for the EU as a whole (eurostat wants to update that statistic next year), but at least in the UK (office for national statistics [3], figure 6) the suicide rate among people aged 10-29 has odd fluctuations, but overall doesn't change much between 2007 and 2015 (algough it has ended the steep decline that was present 1997-2007). If smartphones are really responsible for increased suicide rates, we would expect to see similar effects all over the developed world. Maybe an effect on EU teenage suicide rates is hidden by an overall decrease in teenage suicides, but that's not apparent from the data at all (the decease until 2007 might just be a return to the "normal" levels of the early 1980s, for all I know). 1: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Number_of_deaths_of_children_and_young_people_caused_by_intentional_self-harm,_by_age_group,_EU-28,_2000%E2%80%9311.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... 2: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Being_young_in_Europe_today_-_health http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... 3: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2015registrations https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...
zenkat 9y ago
Despite the clickbait headline, the rest of the article is balanced and well-reasoned, documenting both positive and negative changes. And the graphs at the end (rates of seeing friends, loneliness, having sex) are compelling. Clearly a huge change happened around 2007.
scrumper 9y ago
> After all, while the smartphone is also common in the EU, the teen suicide rates did not change that much Bad argument. Gun ownership in Canada is higher than the USA's, yet their firearms murder rate is massively lower. That doesn't mean that gun ownership in the USA isn't a problem worth addressing. There is something in the intersection of smartphones and teens and the USA which is causing a measurable deleterious effect on the '07-'12 generation. The thing that's changed is smartphone ownership (and the services they can access). So clearly it is worth investigating.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > There is something in the intersection of smartphones and teens and the USA which is causing a measurable deleterious effect on the '07-'12 generation. The thing that's changed is smartphone ownership [...] Well, that, yes, but there's also the GOP shifting into full-on "destroy Obama by any means" wilful destruction of the USA's political structures which may give them a less than rosy view on their futures.
- wongarsu 9y ago
  It's important to differentiate between "smartphones are universally bad for teens", "smartphones are bad for teens in our circumstances" and "smartphones are usually bad for teens, but under some circumstances they work our fine". That's not just an academic difference: it may be easier to change to circumstances surrounding smartphones than the presence of smartphones. But that requires understanding what the factors are. Wrongfully declaring smartphones as universally bad is unlikely to be helpful.

by 317070 9y ago

golergka 9y ago

> correlation does not imply causation The articles adresses this issue and talks about research into correlation.

rohansingh 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline... > Betteridge's law of headlines is one name for an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

rainbowmverse 9y ago
Someone needs to come up with a law for internet laws that become overused to the point where they're more of an impediment to discussion than the thing they're about.
- SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
  "If you're not paying then you are the product" being another prime example that seems to have been done to death here on HN.
- maw 9y ago
  The only kind of person who would say that is a na—Sorry. Never mind.

jensv 9y ago

" One piece of data that indirectly but stunningly captures kids’ growing isolation, for good and for bad: Since 2007, the homicide rate among teens has declined, but the suicide rate has increased. As teens have started spending less time together, they have become less likely to kill one another, and more likely to kill themselves. In 2011, for the first time in 24 years, the teen suicide rate was higher than the teen homicide rate. Depression and suicide have many causes; too much technology is clearly not the only one. And the teen suicide rate was even higher in the 1990s, long before smartphones existed. Then again, about four times as many Americans now take antidepressants, which are often effective in treating severe depression, the type most strongly linked to suicide."

mhb 9y ago

What are you refuting with your link? TFA says Since 2007, the homicide rate among teens has declined, but the suicide rate has increased. The slide you cite ends in 2005.

wongarsu 9y ago
[1] is a better source (taken from eurostat report [2], which defines intentional self-hard as "purposely self-inflicted poisoning or injury and (attempted) suicide."). Despite a brief increase in 2008, overall the teen suicide rate has declined. The suicide rate for people aged 20-24 has slighlty increased since 2007, following a steep decline. I can't find any data post 2011 for the EU as a whole (eurostat wants to update that statistic next year), but at least in the UK (office for national statistics [3], figure 6) the suicide rate among people aged 10-29 has odd fluctuations, but overall doesn't change much between 2007 and 2015 (algough it has ended the steep decline that was present 1997-2007). If smartphones are really responsible for increased suicide rates, we would expect to see similar effects all over the developed world. Maybe an effect on EU teenage suicide rates is hidden by an overall decrease in teenage suicides, but that's not apparent from the data at all (the decease until 2007 might just be a return to the "normal" levels of the early 1980s, for all I know). 1: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Number_of_deaths_of_children_and_young_people_caused_by_intentional_self-harm,_by_age_group,_EU-28,_2000%E2%80%9311.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... 2: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Being_young_in_Europe_today_-_health http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... 3: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2015registrations https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...

zenkat 9y ago

Despite the clickbait headline, the rest of the article is balanced and well-reasoned, documenting both positive and negative changes. And the graphs at the end (rates of seeing friends, loneliness, having sex) are compelling. Clearly a huge change happened around 2007.

scrumper 9y ago

> After all, while the smartphone is also common in the EU, the teen suicide rates did not change that much Bad argument. Gun ownership in Canada is higher than the USA's, yet their firearms murder rate is massively lower. That doesn't mean that gun ownership in the USA isn't a problem worth addressing. There is something in the intersection of smartphones and teens and the USA which is causing a measurable deleterious effect on the '07-'12 generation. The thing that's changed is smartphone ownership (and the services they can access). So clearly it is worth investigating.

zimpenfish 9y ago
> There is something in the intersection of smartphones and teens and the USA which is causing a measurable deleterious effect on the '07-'12 generation. The thing that's changed is smartphone ownership [...] Well, that, yes, but there's also the GOP shifting into full-on "destroy Obama by any means" wilful destruction of the USA's political structures which may give them a less than rosy view on their futures.
wongarsu 9y ago
It's important to differentiate between "smartphones are universally bad for teens", "smartphones are bad for teens in our circumstances" and "smartphones are usually bad for teens, but under some circumstances they work our fine". That's not just an academic difference: it may be easier to change to circumstances surrounding smartphones than the presence of smartphones. But that requires understanding what the factors are. Wrongfully declaring smartphones as universally bad is unlikely to be helpful.