3 ms·

I hear this argument a lot. Just because something is inflammatory, doesn't mean it isn't true [1]. It also doesn't mean discussing it will cause it to happen

by dm319 9y ago

I hear this argument a lot. Just because something is inflammatory, doesn't mean it isn't true [1]. It also doesn't mean discussing it will cause it to happen again. It also doesn't mean that we can't also look into the causes and concerns of said people and the vote. Improving education allows people to develop skills for a changing job market, as well as recognise that some promises [2] were suspect from the start. My opinion is that these were two contributing factors to vote result. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034 [2] https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.indy100.com/article/7-brexit-promises-that-have-already-been-abandoned--b1Ne7rGnZDZ%3famp https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.indy100.com/article/7-brexi...

ThomPete 9y ago
Education has far less to do with being educated than the word might allude to. Having a university degree is no guarantee against a stupid electorate.
- dm319 9y ago
  I totally agree. It's a surrogate marker for something that is much harder to measure.
- pm90 9y ago
  The thing though is that a university degree does confer some amount of critical thinking on most of its graduates. I'm rather skeptical that every college graduate is guaranteed to be a smart, critical thinking, nuances person. But I do feel comfortable in saying that most are. And even those that aren't, have been exposed to people who are, have created social networks etc. So I don't think being a college educated Republican/Conservative is a contradiction. The difference is the college educated person is more likely to believe in facts and reasoned arguments than appeals to passion, or native tribalism. They are more likely to have more faith in institutions, including democracy. I think its hard for someone who went to college to relate to a person who hasn't been in terms of what kind of effect college has on their lives.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    Critical thinking is a talent not something you learn at the university. People of all shapes and sizes form alle parts of society has it. It starts way earlier than university too. There is a much magical thinking going on at university level as many other places in society. Further more critical thinking is often mistaken for constructive thinking which is another rather big issue with universities. Universities are mostly about analysis not about creating which leaves a gaping hole in the real world. I have worked with my share of academics and non-academics. There is no noticeable difference between them generally speaking. Only when it comes to subject matters do we differ in our naivety and hasty conclusions but the ability to think critical is IMO something very different.
    - pm90 9y ago
      > I have worked with my share of academics and non-academics. Unless you have a different definition of "academics", this doesn't seem to me like you're arguing for anything. By "non-academics", are you talking about "not-gone-to-college"? And I'm not going to continue this discussion either way, since we seem to be operating on anecdotes. Perhaps your experience has been different than mine. I would add though that I'm not asserting that a University automatically imbibes critical thinking, just that it exposes students to it, whether it be their professors or peers. A college education expands your worldview, but certainly it can be achieved in other ways (travel, reading etc.)
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        Yes I am talking about not-gone-to-college. There is anecdotal evidence and then there are anecdotes. I am simply questioning the idea that university are somehow turning people into critical thinkers if they weren't before. Critical thinking is a skill. You have to practice it like you practice music. And just like music simply being exposed to piano playing doesn't make you a piano player.
        pm90 9y ago
        > Critical thinking is a skill. You have to practice it like you practice music. And just like music simply being exposed to piano playing doesn't make you a piano player. Actually, this is a good point. Yes, I agree 100% it doesn't automatically make you a piano player. But it might make you appreciate piano music and pianists more. It might make you interested in how piano music evolved over time etc.

by dm319 9y ago

ThomPete 9y ago

Education has far less to do with being educated than the word might allude to. Having a university degree is no guarantee against a stupid electorate.

dm319 9y ago
I totally agree. It's a surrogate marker for something that is much harder to measure.
pm90 9y ago
The thing though is that a university degree does confer some amount of critical thinking on most of its graduates. I'm rather skeptical that every college graduate is guaranteed to be a smart, critical thinking, nuances person. But I do feel comfortable in saying that most are. And even those that aren't, have been exposed to people who are, have created social networks etc. So I don't think being a college educated Republican/Conservative is a contradiction. The difference is the college educated person is more likely to believe in facts and reasoned arguments than appeals to passion, or native tribalism. They are more likely to have more faith in institutions, including democracy. I think its hard for someone who went to college to relate to a person who hasn't been in terms of what kind of effect college has on their lives.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  Critical thinking is a talent not something you learn at the university. People of all shapes and sizes form alle parts of society has it. It starts way earlier than university too. There is a much magical thinking going on at university level as many other places in society. Further more critical thinking is often mistaken for constructive thinking which is another rather big issue with universities. Universities are mostly about analysis not about creating which leaves a gaping hole in the real world. I have worked with my share of academics and non-academics. There is no noticeable difference between them generally speaking. Only when it comes to subject matters do we differ in our naivety and hasty conclusions but the ability to think critical is IMO something very different.
  - pm90 9y ago
    > I have worked with my share of academics and non-academics. Unless you have a different definition of "academics", this doesn't seem to me like you're arguing for anything. By "non-academics", are you talking about "not-gone-to-college"? And I'm not going to continue this discussion either way, since we seem to be operating on anecdotes. Perhaps your experience has been different than mine. I would add though that I'm not asserting that a University automatically imbibes critical thinking, just that it exposes students to it, whether it be their professors or peers. A college education expands your worldview, but certainly it can be achieved in other ways (travel, reading etc.)
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      Yes I am talking about not-gone-to-college. There is anecdotal evidence and then there are anecdotes. I am simply questioning the idea that university are somehow turning people into critical thinkers if they weren't before. Critical thinking is a skill. You have to practice it like you practice music. And just like music simply being exposed to piano playing doesn't make you a piano player.
      - pm90 9y ago
        > Critical thinking is a skill. You have to practice it like you practice music. And just like music simply being exposed to piano playing doesn't make you a piano player. Actually, this is a good point. Yes, I agree 100% it doesn't automatically make you a piano player. But it might make you appreciate piano music and pianists more. It might make you interested in how piano music evolved over time etc.